Tim Willrich - Producer

Joining me this week, Tim Willrich

Tim is a UK-based producer dedicated to bold, distinctive, and genre-driven storytelling. With a background rooted in independent cinema, Tim has built a reputation for nurturing projects that combine strong creative vision with commercial appeal.

 2025 saw Tim & Limbo Produce action horror 'For the Good of the Herd' in association with Screen Anthology, as well as World War II action drama 'The Ghost and the Gun', a feature filmed on location in Bali, Indonesia.

2026 will see multiple projects in development, with at least two advancing into production in the latter half of the year.​

At the heart of Tim’s work is a deep commitment to supporting original voices and cultivating genre films that surprise and engage audiences. Through Limbo, he continues to champion projects that blur the line between independent spirit and global reach, with a vision to bring daring new stories to screens worldwide.

Tim's Instagram

Tim's Website

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Your Life and Film. I'm your host, Ted Bennett. Joining me this week, Tim Wilrich. Tim is a UK-based producer dedicated to both distinctive and genre-driven genre. Genre-driven storytelling. With a background rooted in the Fucking Hell. First day using this math. With a background rooted in independent cinema, Tim has built a reputation for nurturing projects that combine strong creative vision with commercial appeal. In 2025, Tim and his production company Limbo Rictors produced action horror for the good of the herd in association with scream anthology, as well as World War II action drama, The Ghost and the Gun, a feature film filmed in Bali. Very nice. At the heart of Tim's work is a deep commitment to supporting original voices and cultivating genre films that surprise and engage audiences. He continues to champion projects that blur the line between independent spirit and global reach with a vision to bring daring news stories to the screens worldwide. This is the first time I've ever spoken to Tim, but um we got on quite well. I think uh we shared a lot of similar stuff. So enjoy. Uh we jumped straight into it. No fluff, straight in. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Again, I d I you can't say, you can't say, I'm just just just got off a call this morning, and like, you know, that uh we're talking about this, and you know, they're like, oh yeah, we have to be paid for our time and our work and all. I mean, yeah, I'm I'm all for that. And I I I love that um the mentality, but equally like I love what I love what I do, and I don't want to like if if I can if I can make films like you know with uh at a lower lower tier, I mean even kind of going, you know, like sub sub 5 mil if you can squeeze films you know uh into that and then make money off of it and keep on doing that. I mean ultimately that's what I'm on my my kind of uh um I guess convey about is is is made to do is is is kind of you know do films at a a lower price point where everything's not you know lavish and easy and you haven't got all the crew members you need, but you've got enough if everyone just rolls their sleeves up and and grafts a bit. Yeah, myself included, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Like so I don't like I don't like I I don't care what you think your title is. It's like if the film need it's the greater good. Like we've got to get this film made, and I don't care. Like, as the director, I'll get up and be like, what do we need to do? Tack some nails in, I'll tack some nails in. I don't care. Like I'm like a qualified builder, so I'll happily just jump on and build sets because it's like no no no no fuck it. Like this needs to get done. I don't care. Yeah, and I've I've worked with some people who sat to the side because they're like, Well, it's not my job to do it, and it's like it's your job to make sure that this fucking works, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Well, that that's that that that I mean the mentality in it is very interesting, kind of working on different sets. I mean, I guess one of the reasons why I I got so I mean that's why I was wanted to be to be a producer is like you know, is that mentality that you set the top and you can step onto a set and you can you can you can literally sense it how what it's like and and yeah, if it is like you've got people at the side sitting like that, being militant, it's like that's not my job, that's your job, or like I'm I you know, I'm I'm art, I'm lighting on camera, we do our bit. Everyone else get fucked. Like if you if but then you know if you're there like you know, exactly doing it, if you're there kind of banging some nails in, and like, you know, uh the last one I did we you know, or the the the me and the EPs were kind of like still like you if camera kit needed to come downstairs and we know we uh around this big fucking building that we were in for a month, um you know, we'd be we'd be helping bring stuff in, you know, be doing like anyone needed any help, we'd all we'd all kind of like muck in. And as soon as you have that atmosphere, you like everyone starts uh starts kind of doing the same thing, and then it's like okay, well we're not no, it's not a no, it's not militant, and no one's getting blamed for anything, and you know, it's not it's just it is all for one one for all, and it and it sounds kind of cheesy, but and you know, I say at the top of every production, and everyone's always like, Yeah, alright, mate, sure. Uh and then but then you know they they get into it and go, okay, actually no, you are at least trying to practice what you preach, um which doesn't make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

The one I always say at the top of my productions is um if this all goes horribly wrong, it's my fault. Yeah, right. If it all goes really well, it's group effort. Yeah, like I'm I'm I'm not here to steal anyone's thunder. If someone says that was really good, I'd be like, that was this guy, and he is the clapperboard guy. Like he came up with that idea, hire him for your ideas next. Like, yeah, I'm all about just getting everyone up, let's just get everyone as high as we can.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah, well, and and that's the way it should be, you know, not like just kind of clambering on um you know people's backs to kind of you know get the ladder and stuff. And you know, and and again, it if everyone feels appreciated and and you know, that the like the difference in it is what even just like it's just the the extra half an hour of grace that you get, you know, because like we're not quite finishing on time, like does everyone mind going like half an hour over and everyone's gonna say everyone's like, yeah, cool, no right.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Like, you know, yeah, don't worry about it. It's not gonna be half an hour of misery, it's gonna be half an hour of getting it done.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Well, yeah, and and everyone sees it and they see that every you know and everyone just buys in and cares rather than just yeah, and that's the thing is if you if you just check out and you're there just solid for it, like it's and again you see that it's like you it almost the light in people's eyes just go extinguishing like it's just a job now, it's just a job, I don't really care. Like, I'll I'll do it, I'll get paid.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

One of the first jobs I was I did an EPK back in about 2014 for a BFI funded short film. It was for one of their um you know, like the BFI Shorts festival that they do. Yeah, it was for one of those films, and I was working with a load of sort of grips and guys like that, and not one of them wanted to be there. And to me, it was like, this is the dream factory, like you're working on movies. They're like, oh, just a short film though. I'm like, you're making a short film, like I don't care who you are, this is fun. And you could see like there was no love anymore, and I was like, Why are you doing go fuck off be a Sparky somewhere, go do something else? Like, don't there are so many people who would love the job, and I'd rather have someone who loved it, and they may not be as timed in, but yeah, they love it.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

But I mean so we you get you get on bigger stuff, and and you know, like it is very much. I mean, obviously the the kind of the the the the allure and the kind of the the the stardust kind of starts uh like kind of falling away for a lot of people, even if they had it before, because like sometimes some people honestly is just a well-paid job. Like, you know, if you're in if you're in doing like you know, the studios doing like big films and you're you know you you're lighting camera and everything, then you know you're you know it's it's just you know you're you're you're doing a well-paid job, and some some of them sure might be like, I love I love what I do, but like a lot of them just like don't care. Like yeah, I could be they they that approach kind of doing anything else the same way, it's just that this is well paid, and they get to kind of sit around and and and chill out for like parts of the day and and you know they're they're they're they're laughing. So it is yeah, it's it's it's a funny one, but yeah, like and the bigger the bigger the the sets get, the more you the more of those people you find, which again you can't fault it, like each to their own, but like yeah, I'm always like there, like even even now.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

We're making films, yeah, yeah. Great, yeah.

unknown 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Well, the most recent script we're working on, which is uh it's a version of the short film, but it's not like a verbatim like 90-minute version of our short film. But um I I I went in with uh the thing to my like co-writer, I was like, one actor, one farmhouse, my friend's old farmhouse that his parents, like his grandparents live in, is currently empty. So we have the location and one actor. And he was like, one actor. I was like, this is my idea, like what can we do with that? And then whenever he's like, if we could get a second, I'm like, why do we need the second? And like I'm letting them get like, okay, we can have a second if this can do like this, and maybe we could have someone on the phone, so we don't need we could ADR that in. And they were like, okay, and I'm like, I've just got to keep this as low as I can. And then if if you come in with an idea that I'm like, yes, that can be fractionally more, and we can get another person in, and we might be able to do half a day in another location, that's fine. That's almost negligible in my mind. And then we just sort of build and build it and build it. I'm like, that's how I'm gonna have to do it now. Because given that carte blanche to be like you said, just write it, write the story, and then it's like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not gonna work. Bring it in, bring it in. It's like, let's just get it as tight as we can. You can have this rock, that's all you can have.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

But the then the nut the nuts thing is then is like, you know, even if if you're like, right, I can do this for like 200k or whatever, like and and and like even that that is that's harder to like you get you. I mean, yeah, I'm I'm sure you're you you you've had a you go you go around the circle, like it's like, well, everyone's like, Well, that's two though, like what you know uh like then it's like it can't be done.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Why is that so cheap? Yeah, it's like uh well, because realistically that's all it actually costs.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Like, I'm not gonna lie, yeah, but it is and it's uh selling and then and then like distribution won't give you any numbers like that. Well, that just sounds like a you know a 200 grand short like sorry feature won't won't fly in, blah blah blah. And it's like like and ever everyone's so cagey about everything now. So it's and like so it that then and then you get people that are like, okay, we've got to put it up to like two million, otherwise people won't be interested. And then then you have the whole thing of like, well, they need the cast, you need like a you know a named cast to kind of quantify that. Then then you're like, and then then it's a case of, and again, I've had this where like as a as a as a first-time director, you're like, Well, it's too high for a first-time director, we can't possibly do that for that. Uh, and then you end up in this kind of cycle, it's like, well, so I can't do it this this budget, I can't do it with that budget. Well, yeah, anything in between is kind of like one or the other as well, or both. So it just ends up being like, Well, what are you supposed to do here, guys? It's like, yeah, the the uh the I I I get inherently frustrated about what you what you as a as a director, it's like it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

That is the bit that I pro that's probably my biggest issue with um that it that the industry in that part is that it's like I'm not allowed to make it for nothing, and I'm not allowed the money to make it for anything more than that. So, what do you want me to do? It's like we want you just to make whatever you want to make. And it's like, but I need the money. And they're like, Well, what could you do with no money? No, no, no, you've told me no money isn't available to me.

SPEAKER_06 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

So if no money's available to me and money is not available to me, where do you need me? It's like, can you just go and make it? And I'm like, make what? Yeah, what do you want me to make? Like, and it it is, it's that it's the same thing of what actors have you got on board before we give you any financing? We haven't got any actors on board. Well, well, then we can't give you financing. Yeah, but the actors won't come on board until there's any financing. Well, yeah, and they're like, right.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

It's it's always chicken and egg, and then you're trying to get a go be friends with Leonardo DiCaprio and see if he'll do it for free. Shut up. Yeah, great, great, great idea. Yeah, well, and even I mean that's the thing as well, is like even if you you go out to I mean, go out to actors. I mean, literally, we had uh I've put out paid offers for like you know, like big, like big, big actors that make a difference, and like we're like money's there, uh even as and you know, the off of offers in so we're offering them a set amount for you know like for a feature part for you know seven days of working on set for a chunk of change, like a big chunk of change, yeah. Uh and they're still like not enough, or like who's the director of that, and that's the other thing as well, is like the you know you like like the the agents who are the kind of safeguards, like if if you if you because you they're not you're not gonna kind of pull them in on like you know it get them excited about your idea and whether it's good for their because they're looking at their 10% as well. So it'd be like, well, I'm it's not gonna be as much money, but it'd be great. Um and then like who who have you who have you done a film before? Like and and so you you even you don't get to you don't get to the kind of the the good actors, so I mean yeah, it's just it's just in inherently every way round is just a bit screwy, like yeah, uh yeah, and unless unless you can uh like um like get some equity in in the in the film yourself, like and then then maybe you kind of lure some private equity into it because they're like okay, well you're you're betting on yourself now, like you've got skin in the game, and okay, I'll put like yeah, if you can put 20 grand in, maybe I'll put 20 grand and then you're like okay, we'll rough the races now. Um but yeah, it's it's it's hard, man. However, however you matrix it, it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

So whereabouts are you in the UK? I assume you're UK.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah, yeah, um New Forest, so down the south coast. Oh nice. So yeah, mid-diddle of the middle of the nowhere. Actually, how about how about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 12:13

So I'm uh Shropshire, uh up Midlands way.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Okay, nice. So I right I used I lived in Bam Bambury in Oxfordshire for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Oh yeah, no, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

It's about your couple of hours. Uh west of that, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

West of that. So we'd be um we're about an hour from Birmingham.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Um more into Wales. Like I think we're we border Wales as a as a as a town. But um I'm not from the Midlands, hence the accent, I'm from London. But uh it was second lockdown. I couldn't I couldn't face living in Tottenham anymore. And I was like, I gotta I've gotta get out of here. And then realised, you know, if we move to Shropshire, we can buy a house and I can focus on film again. It's like one of us just do that. Which is a dream.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

So yeah. How have you found it? So I I obviously speak from experience kind of bit about being being so I've always I've never been a Londoner. How how have you found it in terms of just you know, I guess you have your your clan and your people that are doing it, but like it I think it's inherently harder to do well like outside of London than it is anywhere else.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

It's a bit it's a bit like we were saying the duality of funding and actors and funding and whatever. It's uh if I lived in London, I probably couldn't afford to do this. But in London, there's the ability to make connections, go to screenings, have like meetings and see people a lot easier. And uh I think that then comes down to being the right person, the right type of person. Like with my film when I went off to the States, I I was a solo traveller and I went to uh Wisconsin, LA, New York, Austin and somewhere else. Uh North Carolina. And I would just have to turn up and make the most of every conversation and just see like what can I do here, what can happen, and these connections, like do I like these people? Can I make these into like stronger bonds? And then keeping on touching base with these people and just sort of like reinforcing those connections. And I guess you just have to be a bit more, as you know, like selective about your sort of like network, because if I lived in London stuff still, I would be going to loads of places, I'd be going to screenings, I'd be still doing all those normal things. And you would you'd have to filter a lot. You filter out all the people that you're like, oh, you're a bit of a tourist, or you're you know, you like to say you do things, and that's cool. Like I I if you want to say that you're a filmmaker and never actually do anything, that's your business. I don't care. Yeah. But like you know that there's the people that are actually grafting there, the people that are always working, the people that are always doing, or just the way that they talk about film, you know that it's like, oh, you like filmmaking, you you care about that as a craft, you don't just like Nolan films. And there's no shot on that. It's just like a very different, you know, you care about filmmaking.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Um so being out of that like system, it is very specific. And I I've kind of tuned my ear now that if I start speaking to someone and I pick up very quickly, I'm like, ooh, you're good. You're a good person to talk to about this because you get it. So it's harder, but I think if the option is live in London and have to wade through a lot of it, or live out of London and just be a lot better at like focusing in, I'd rather this one.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yeah, I think it's just kind of the qu quality of life, what work like and and and you know, gener generally being happier rather than being you know, yeah, like having to concentrate on um yeah, like obviously kind of make making making and ends meet every month, uh maybe a little bit more. I mean, so yeah, like I don't know, I never know what the best the best uh option is, but I've always I've always been well I'm yeah from I'm from the country, I'm a country pumpkin, so I like I love London, but I love leaving it.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Like that's that's uh Oh like since leaving London I've been back maybe like three or four times, uh like not that many times. Um and treating London as a tourist is so much nicer.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Like you can enjoy it. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the Prince Charles, watch a film, and then go to a lovely after party, and then go back to my hotel. Yeah, and this is lovely.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Like it's not like yeah, even even doing that a few times is still still cheaper. I mean, I mean, I three, I mean it's it's two hours in the train for me, or like I mean, I still spend that invariably I spend a lot of time there for working or or whatever and like in-person meetings obviously like like to do where possible. Um, but then the the fact of it because it does it does take you know two hours on a train, like it's like the intent is always like, well, I'm not gonna just I'm not gonna go in for like any old meeting. I want to make it either want to make it like a day of you know meetings and then cultivate like a uh you know at least at least two or three things to warrant it or make sure, yeah, I'm not just gonna go and have like a one you know, a kind of a uh one-off chat with someone I vaguely spoke to once. Like, yeah, I'll always do it like a zoom first and then I'm like, you know what, I actually you know that yeah, but couldn't get get that there's a good there's a good vibe here, so I'll I'll you know then happy to kind of like you know yeah make make the make the schlepp, but uh yeah, it is really and I I always end up sort of seeing like I've got a lot of theatre actor friends.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Um so like my friend Stevenson who is in our short film, he is currently Alexander Hamilton on the West End. Amazing and he was I know it's fucking sick. Uh but he was also Simba, like for a while in the like The Lion King. So whenever I would sort of pop in, I'd be like, What are you working on? It's like you're at the Globe. All right, I'll come to the Globe. Yeah, and it's like I wouldn't normally go to the Globe, but I'll come and watch you in this play because it'll be lovely. Like, and it's not living in London means I go to the theatre more. Like, because it's like, oh, I'll go see a friend in a play, that'll be nice. I can't afford that when I live in London, but as I'm not, I can afford to go do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Oh well, yeah, but I think it's just it's because yeah, when I think it's it's always things when uh when when they're on your doorstep, you're always like, Oh, I can tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. Yeah, and when you when you're not, you're like, okay, well now I'm at like making an active effort. Like, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

This exhibit is only on for two weeks. I'll make sure I go and see it, like, because otherwise three years will pass and I'll be like, that exhibit's still on? No? Oh, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Oh, there's another thing that I really want to see, and then and then the whole whole thing over again. Yeah, it's it's uh yeah, it it definitely definitely uh it's a different mentality, uh um, yeah, so like um not living in there, but uh yeah, I it it makes I yeah, it makes uh it makes a lot of things definitely harder as well. I think you know the kind of the community thing, I think, which is you know obviously invariably a lot of it's in London. Um I mean that's try trying to I think it's always an interesting question because obviously there is plenty plenty of us that don't live in London that absolutely um you know love what we do and and and what they want to do it are doing it. Um and and it's just yeah, like I mean when I when I started doing it, like you, um yeah, literally um like I I well I didn't know anyone uh in London or here like that would do it. So you have to it it can't it can be even like knowing where to start and having any like no contact or context at all is is it's kind of a it's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

So it's uh well I was really lucky because I was I went to uni a bit later, I say a bit later, like 25 or something. And in our first year, uh someone uh producer called Angelique Talliot uh said I need someone to shoot a behind the scenes for our short film. Do you have anyone at your university? Like so my my lecturer sort of said, like, yeah, I know someone, but I'm gonna have to put it to the whole class. And he sort of said to me, like, you should apply. You do it, do it, do it. And uh that was the first year I worked with Angelique, and then I did a couple more shorts with her, like as the behind the scenes. And for the first stage of my career, it was just those people at that for the first two or three years I just had to work with uh these guys because there was no other uh you know work around it. And then I became a film journalist, which then meant uh I was able to like uh get in again with a different crowd. And uh there's people that I still sort of like touch base with every now and then to sort of be like, hey, what's going on? You know, have you got anything going? But it's amazing that for so long that like my community was so small, but I still got so much from it. So it really is like you could be best mates with you know someone doing film properly, but they might not be the kind of person that gets you in, you know. So it it's it really is about picking the right community and it's quality, not quantity as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, 100% for sure. I mean, yeah, and and so like I mean that that's definitely you know having having a small circle of of just really good people and and are just trying to all all like kind of trying to bring each other up together. I mean that's that's the kind of voice that the dream of it. It's like yeah, if if you if you and you're you you're you're kind of people that like your close friends or you're in your close circle can kind of like build up together and all like get there and so you you're all at kind of like the the the kind of uh the the swanky award ceremonies or or whatever, you know, all together, then that's that's kind of like you know, that's that's the dream. Like, you know, if if you're there with just kind of um you know people you can't stand, I can't imagine that's uh that that's that's much fun.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

So uh yeah, I think it's I I I met similar people on the circuit when I was over there in the States doing the tour for mine. And it was interesting how on the first day there's this excitement. Hey, God, we're all making movies. And then on like one of the last days, seeing them and being like in another city, in another state, seeing them again and being Being like, you're right. Because it's like, I did not like you. I had the wrong energy and I don't care for this. Yeah. But like, it's amazing how if you'd said that at the beginning, I'd be like, no, no, everyone. I want to talk to everyone. And it's like, you pick them up quickly.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. But that I mean it's kind of like uh yeah, like filmmaking filmmaker bingo, isn't it? Like some some of the things, some things that and again it is that thing of like you obviously there they're like um you have to you have to kind of have a have a like I guess a facade to it to a certain point you've like bit like business space on, but like I would feel like if if you can if you can get into the kind of like the like past all the bullshit of like you know, oh yeah, um you know uh well we've got you know we've got someone like even we're talking about actors, oh yeah, we've got this person reading this every everyone's kind of just like fanning the fanning the flames of their their project and like how how how kind of like moving forward is how much momentum it's got and and like you know rather than just talk taught the brass tacks of it less like this is hard, you know, and and like you know we've had we've had seven people turn us down, it's taken six months to get this bar where if we were all honest grand on my credit card now, like you know, and and uh you know they'd be like only 10 fucking fair play. It's a dickhead, like you know, there's uh like I and I I I I value those conversations a lot more because like you know, that's the trouble. There's like is it even for because even the you can just hear in uh what people say is like you can the more the more older and grislier I get, like you kind of hear the things that they say, and they're all stuff that I've said at one point or another. Because so that's why you always spot it, you always yeah, because you're all saying the same shit to make it sound more interesting or impressive, or like you know, having more momentum than it actually does. Uh, even just selling yourself and like how you sell yourself, like what your bio is like you know, that's interesting. Oh god, yeah. Yeah, right. The the you know, like uh it always makes me laugh with the uh award-winning filmmaker kind of thing. I was like, and and you know, literally, I think nine out of ten people start with that, and it's you know, it's great that you've won award, but like award award, like you know, award-winning doesn't mean anything anymore because everyone's an award-winning um you know, so like I my it I won't say to uh people like you, uh industry people, I will say like I've done a short film, it's won a load of awards, and I'll be really flippant about it.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

I will just be like, it's won a load of awards, like which to other like to filmmakers, they're like, Okay, so it got into some places, it's done a circuit. Yeah, that's it. When other people sort of be like, you know, he's a multi-award winning, I'm like, let's not. Like because you've never heard of any of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So but that that that's always thing because I get, I mean, and and it is, you know, when it it's it's validation, uh, and you know, it it's something of saying, like, I I can do what I'm saying I can do, I can direct I've done I've done this thing and I can, I told everyone I could do it, and I can do it, and someone else is about you so.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

But until I've got a BAFTA on the shelf, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

That's not true. Yeah, but that's what I mean. I mean, and that's yeah, because because like yeah, if because I mean, especially some of them when it's like it's you you're not Yanan's uh like international film festival in the in a back garden in uh in no like outer Mongolia or something, is like, well that's yeah, sure, that's that's that's great that you know you you caught an award, but like is it yeah, and until it is like a a biggie, then it like the there there is a there is I guess you know like you said, it's kind of like knowing who you're talking to, and uh and it isn't it's a nice thing to have, and it's a nice thing, and and everyone should be should be proud of you know any acclaim that they get because it's you know it's not it's not easy with any of the shit. So it's uh yeah, I'm I'm not comparing it, but it's just it's just that let me show you my favourite award I've won one second.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

This is a uh oh I love that. That's a great spray painted gold, and uh this is one of my favourite awards I've won.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah, no, I I'm I'm here for that.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

That was uh that's on the shelf. Like I've got like a couple up there that I'm like I like. They're like, oh yeah, these are nice ones that are actually the awards body put some money into it. So I was like, oh, they're nice. Yeah, but then that just gold spray painted toaster, I was like, Jess guess. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

That that that that that's stuff like that. That that's cool. And yeah, again, not to say I'm I'm I'm uh I'm I'm not I'm not gonna uh just because I get like uh what I uh some of some of it's just I guess you that thing where like because I used to used to do it, we used to hack because you know when I first started winning things for shorts, and so it is like the pride that you have and like you know and just yeah, having that kind of yeah, that the people I wasn't an award-winning filmmaker, and now I am. Yeah, it's like it it it is a thing, but it's it's okay. It's just one of those like yeah, it I think it's just like a thing of the way people sell themselves and and uh you know yes, you're trying to you're trying to kind of puff out your chest as much as you can, and like that that those things always because yeah, like everyone says I always feel like okay, well, you know, you're just you you you may as well just put I am a you know uh I'm a writer director or a director or a producer or a actress actor or whatever. Um it just yeah, that that that that those those kind of uh those those words meet uh you know I I feel anyway are meaningless. Other people may disagree.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

No, I I think it is one of those that if you're in the industry, there are certain buzzwords that you hear. Like my one is always like um when we asked or when we pulled in a load of favours, in my head, it's like then you don't know how to budget a film. Like, and it's to me that's really worrying when they're like we pulled in, oh we made it for like a thousand bucks, we pulled in all the favours. I'm like, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to work on your film because that sounds chaotic. Like, I want a fucking spreadsheet, mate.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah I want I want it right. But I mean that that that's always I mean again, I mean I think that's always a limit. So I mean ultimately that's why that's why I I started like I I got I I got um so did my other good directed a couple of shorts initially because I was I was the original kind of uh pipe driven, but then far far like I enjoyed the the kind of ultimately the the producing job and also was not a very good director um and don't don't write. So it was like it was always gonna be a hard hard uh hard graph for that, especially in this day and age. Um and um a bit so that's why I I I got because there there is a there is a single act of people that want to do the the the producing and spreadsheets and stuff and like do all the boring stuff and talk about the logistics and say no and do all that.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Give me a Trello board and let me fucking populate it.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah, yeah. That's just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Just get get get every everything on paper and everything so everyone can see see stuff and nice the shit out of everything. And it's like, yeah, and and yeah, that that that's that's definitely is yeah, not not uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

That is one of my uh biggest worries is that um deep down I know I'm probably a better producer than I am a director, but I really don't want to give up being a director.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

I I I I think I mean that like nor nor should you. I mean that that's the trouble is like you you're you're uh I mean I I I I assume you you know you like I think a lot and I think to be fair, like you know, for shorts and stuff, a lot of people are you know uh a producer, yeah, director producer, yeah. And even even if you do have, I mean that's that you know, if you do have uh other people that are are are are producers, it's like how what the you know what if they are if they genuinely want to be producers always okay, so they like the title and they like um they like the idea of being kind of the the big uh you know big big guy or gal on set. Um and uh and you know that but then all the graph and all the kind of the things and all the things they have to think about, and and ultimately then you know they're just ultimately like a uh a dead weight on the side of your your production that kind of voices opinions every now and again, um, and then you're doing all the graft and all the work and all the real stuff because there's no one else to do it. Um production department is non-existent on a shore normally.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

But I imagine that like even if you're a gun for hire on a on a film, like as a director, I wouldn't sign on to something. Oh maybe I would. Maybe I would do an episode of Holly Oaks, but like I'm not a gun for hire in that sense that like if someone come up to me, like I've had scripts uh uh put towards me and I've just been like not for me, but great, work on it, right? Like keep going. Like I I might have someone who I can get you in contact with. And if I didn't care, I wouldn't want to work on it. So if I do care, then the idea of being a producer makes sense because it's like no no, I want to put this all together. This this whole story wants to get put together. And um, I know a person who would be great for doing this, and I know someone who'd be great to create that, and we can do this, and this will be perfect. And it's putting that team together to create uh a piece of art, let's say, or uh or a product. And uh I always think that like uh if you care, why wouldn't you like if you were the director, why wouldn't you also be a part of the production team? Because I don't know. I I I guess there are some people who do just want to, you know, wear the riding trousers, the big jacket and a megaphone, and they just want to be a direct there.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah, and it's like I mean which which is I mean, yeah, fair fair but then I mean they're they're they're the ones that you know in if if you can't talk to them or they're not if they can't switch into kind of like you know, it's a left brain, right brain thing. It's like if they can't if they if they're gonna just inhabit the kind of the creative side of their brain all the time, and then what you know and they're not gonna talk, then they they're then they're gonna get huffy or argue when when you're saying, well we can't do this because we can't afford the helicopter and yeah, and you know, the the the three tigers that you need and like the the the kind of the the the five days on a on a kind of uh in a water tank or whatever and they're like no they're not thinking about in terms of kind of the uh the overall uh and even even if you if you don't want to kind of get like um weighed down by the all the boring stuff, all the logistics and all the kind of like the finance financial aspects of it, you still have to be able to you still have to have enough respect and understanding of it to be able to go, okay, I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. Because I mean I mean that's a very uh you know it must have very quickly for directors. If you if if if I have ones that go, oh I oh I don't know uh anything about that. I don't I don't do I don't do uh numbers or or uh marketing at someone else's game. So yeah, yeah, so it just it's just like cool. Um you know if if if that's if that's literally I mean my my job is obviously to make them kind of stay in as much creative space as possible, but but if you if you're just gonna completely ignore the fact of its existence, that then we do have a problem.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

No, I think you've got to have that reality, don't you? You have to have that understanding. And like if someone says to me we can't do that, I want my brain to go, then how can we?

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Like I I I I like that idea's gone then, cool. I I'm not afraid that I only have five ideas for the rest of my life. I assume I'm gonna have five ideas in the next 20 minutes. Maybe one of them might be worth saying out loud. So let's just like right, that doesn't work. What what does work then? What do we do? Like I don't like I and there's no heroes if if the T-boy, if the catering guy wants to go, what about this? I'm like, right, done, perfect. That's the way it's done now, because that makes sense. Yeah, like I don't I d I yeah, I don't know. I I haven't got uh like uh an ego in that way. Yeah, but that's the way again afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

I mean like have uh like there is uh you know like ego or the like uh it is is a kind of or a bit a big ego is just an is just a big red flag as well. Because again, that is I think even if it's kind of like again, kind of like the facade of any, like, you know, I like this is how I like directors sound when I when I hear them, and so that and it's kind of like the same as any anyone in any position of power, they're like, Well, this is how I have to be because I'm the boss on the on the on everyone's so I have to be shouting and lambasting people or being like no, like it's all my ideas, or everyone else can kind of like swivel. Like it's just it doesn't work like that. And and you know, the you I mean, sure there's people that have made careers and and that are like that, and it is totalitarian, but like that is I mean, you know, yeah, you you hit you can hear about um Stanley Kubrick or David Fincher doing a a gabillion takes of of you know of Oh, but does a gabillion takes to you not say they don't know what they want?

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Like if we if as a director, if my actors haven't figured it out within two or three takes, I've not explained it correctly, and we should stop for a minute and explain it correctly. Yeah, like I think the most takes I've ever done is four.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

And at the end of it. I was like, I'm sorry, I've not yeah, go on. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

I think that that's I mean, really, I mean, again, unless you're being overtly indulgent. I mean, I mean, A, like, I mean, especially in in indie films, I can't, you mean uh again, I've I've had I've had people kind of say when you know in the in those kind of like you when you when you're talking to people at like a net reckoning and they're like giving it giving it the large one um uh and being like, oh yeah, well I just you have to do the map, it just needs I just need to like the time do that all the takes that I need because you know I have like has to be like what I've got in my mind. It's like well you that that's I mean if if you think you're gonna have 10 enough time for 10 takes on a on a you know on every fucking take, then you're you're just on you're deluded. Like um yeah and and um and you know that that's the thing is like you know if if if if you cite those stories like you know, yeah, I mean Kubrick and uh and and and and Fincher weren't like that on their first run, they're like they're definitely sure. And and I think you know, even it's like the I was I think it was on Gone Girl, was um uh there was uh Finch Fincher was like you know they they kind of making bets on like how many takes, and then it was Ben Affleck just putting some some papers on the on the passenger seat of the car, and like it was like he was kind of looking for them to s to fall in a certain way. So it was like it's it's kind of like he uh it is kind of he it's it's so meticulous in every facet of the of the frame. Yeah, but it's like okay, cool. Yeah, I mean if if you're David Fincher and you can you know the the everything's built for you to be able to do that, then then okay, fine. But like if you know like pe people kind of believing that that you know the way that he works or the way that you know any of any of your ever your heroes work that you kind of aspire to be, like they they weren't doing that on their first film or their second film, probably then on their fifth film.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Like, you know, it's no no no it's it's kind of is when the studio started fluffing them a bit too hard and they were like, Oh, I can get away with some real bullshit. It's like yeah, but don't don't get rid of it, don't get away with bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, like well there's no, I mean, and again that's what that's what you know, that's what frustrates me about the the the the bigger films is they bleed so much money. I mean, you know, you like they they bleed through like you know money that you could make a small film on a telephone and just and just yeah, if if if it like you've indulgent, um it gets to, and that's the way where we've got to with this kind of the the pipe the kind of the temples now and like how obscenely expensive they are.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Um well it seems you can only make a film for a hundred million or one million, yeah. Like, and I'm not saying I'm over here trying to make 20 million films, but it's like there's the amount of 90s thrillers on this shelf which were made for 10 million and they were fucking sick. Yeah. Like what where the hell are they? Where's the tight 90, yeah, 90 like 20 million film that is perfect? Where are they?

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah, I mean that that's just jumble was just what streaming's done, isn't it? It just just you know where I mean where where you could have like you know something could just make all of its money on on VHS or or DVD uh and Blu-ray and that like they're just obviously that's just eviscerated overnight and then and it's just had this course correction. Now I think I think we're getting there in terms of like the the the kind of the the throughflow of kind of films per year. I mean it's why I you know every the obviously the box office and theatricals better this year, but yeah, obviously the starting point of it, everyone's kind of getting used to this new way now, this new machine that that has been built with kind of streaming and theatricals and kind of trying to figure out what does well and you know and I I think it is coming back round to kind of like there can't there is a middle ground for like kind of smaller, smaller kind of you know, like what used to be kind of the indie film or like the mid-tier film again. Yeah. Um, because everyone's just getting sick of like um you know the Avengers and and and Fast and Furious, and you know that there needs to be some more IP. So it's you know that there's there's how how it was in the 70s where there's more people coming through and like you know, interacting new ideas.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Um I feel like we're starting to get to um my hope is always that because it's the 70s than the 90s where it was just the independents were like completely running it, and I was like, let's get back to that. And I think the YouTubers are gonna be what is considered the independents this time round.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, yeah. I I mean, I mean say that the and you they because they've bit yeah, they because they've been building their audience in a different way. And I think you know the other thing is is like where where like you know the I mean the statistics with like you know, the Gen Z is they are going, they're the ones that are going to the cinema the most now. But it's like it's uh you know one of the um Todd Garner, who's one of the uh he's a uh like a like a producer in the States. I mean he's just a Mortal Kombat, but he didn't like a lot of Adam and the films. He used to like run the studio in Disney. So I watched listen to his podcast a lot, which is a great one about um uh producer's network, produce no producer's guide, sorry. Um and um it just uh uh the the the way um yeah, he and he was talking because I'll ultimately like when he was he was a studio head when he was in like his early 30s, and that's the trouble. Like all the studio heads now, which is a valid point, all the people involved, you know, are all like in their 60s, 70s, and and like the a lot of the films still have been skewed towards kind of the age brackets and their taste and and you know them being kind of you know the older generation, so like the the whole you know it's it's like well all the younger generations is not what we want to watch, like we want to watch, you know, we want to watch what we want to watch. And that's the difference between like when it was like younger studio heads. I mean, I'm gonna get the other side of it. Like, if if you're a studio head and you fucking love your job, then you're not gonna go, oh okay, well, I've had my time now, see you later. Like, I like I mean, if I was a head of uh of Disney or you know, or or or like uh one like or Paramount Warner Brothers or something like as a studio exactly I want to be here forever, like aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 40:07

So you try getting rid of me, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

I and and and and and you know that that is the other part of it. It's like you know, everyone's everyone works a lot longer now anyway. Um and that's the that's the thing, is like you know, and I I understand again have had that kind of uh um uh kind of frustration myself. It's like you know, there's no there's no you know, no room for me, or like how how can I exist in this thing? And like how dare these people not like give us opportunities, but it just means that they are they them or their mates are out of their job, and it's like well, how what what what's our right to be able to say to say that? Like you have to go this is my turn on the rope swing now.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Like it's not it's not like well it it does yeah, that that's our turn on the rope swing is a fair one there. Like when people sort of say things like um oh, like the gatekeepers of Hollywood, and it's like ah no no no no no no, like they're not gatekeepers, but as you know, you work with a group of people that you know you work well with, and I work with a group of people that I know I work well with. If someone new comes in and I've not worked with them and no one else vouches for them, I'm gonna want to see proof that it works. So I'm not gonna take that risk. So it's kind of like, oh, I get it. I get why you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah, I mean that's why I mean it's it is very insular, yeah. And exactly that it's like you know, that I like you we have enough headaches as it is like like day on day. It's like if you have people that you trust and you know how they work, they're known entities, even if you know, you know, if they're not they don't have to be perfect, but you know what their where their shortcomings are and they're there are but they ultimately they do a good job, they're a good they work well uh with it with this team. And like I do I do obviously like to try and um you you try try try new people and just not have exactly the same people. I mean it doesn't always happen anyway. The fact you can just have like they like you know uh film on film have all the same people, um but you know, like uh and get give people uh like a you know that like a credit because that's um like that's the other thing I I I do despise and again where where I I I I found incredibly frustrating when I started was you know they're like uh you like no one will give you a uh experience as a PA or something, they won't give you because oh you haven't got any experience as a feature, so we can't give we can't possibly give you experience on a feature. So well, how do I get experience unless someone else is someone's gonna give me a chance? And it's it's it's so to get people's client their first credit is a is a um you know that that that that way I mean that was a that was a really tricky thing to do because no one's willing to give you the experience unless you've already had the experience, which is like a yeah, a crazy way to look at it. So you're very much gonna always like you try and blood some some you'd be able to give them so they they do get the even if you know not always great, but um you know that they they get the experience and they kind of learn from it. Um been very lucky most of the time, it's been the complete the opposite. So I'd have people and it's their first film and they've just been incredibly uh assets to the to the to the film. Like in you know that they they do anything and everything and and uh and just beautiful people as well, which is which is amazing. And and so yeah, that you you do you do have to try there's that end, but yeah, like known entities uh in in a in a risky industry, like it does it does make sense. So yeah, I I I I I understand it equally it's all it's a trouble. It's like you understand both sides of the coin, and it's it's hard to kind of um you know because I I I can say I can say to a point that yeah, you know, I'll try and try and kind of you know work with as many people as I can and uh you know involve as many new people as I can, but equally that it comes to a point where I'm like, well, this is inherently risky enough. I can't risk more.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

I can't have a dozen of like green workers here. I need a couple of veterans.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

I just uh I need I need something that I like, yeah, that's already that's before but that that I'm I'm not like I'm not looking at things over there that have to be done or like someone's already like they're like okay, see that and that they're ahead. Me or like you know, I don't have to ask them what to do, which is again like you again that you only have so much capacity to do that and and and and manage and tell people what to do. And it's and again, it's not their that their fault, you need to you need to be told what to do to understand, you know. Um, some people less than others, some people just like their initiative kind of catches fire quite quickly.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

So it's just and I'm a firm believer in like you learn through failure. So failures aren't necessarily a bad thing. It's like as long as you learn why it failed, then it was completely worth it. Yeah. And like like I said, like if if someone was on set and they got it wrong, I'd be like, cool, do you know why you got it wrong? Yeah, I do. All right.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Yeah, I mean it just there's nothing we can do about it. Like yeah, I mean that that's it, there's no point shouting and screaming about it. You know, the most of the time is you know, it it's it's kind of it it it it it it is that thing of like if someone I mean first and foremost, if someone owns their mistake, that's that's kind of uh that that's the main thing. And I myself included, like, you know, uh and and you you understand where at what point in the machine that uh the the mistake has been made and how that got made, whether it was a miscommunication, whether someone's just made an error, error error in judgment or like you know assumption or whatever, or just it's just one of those things that just shit happens sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Um I mean I even in outside of work, like my uh partner Kirsty wants to open the car door and someone drove past and it think like knocked off their wing mirror. And I came back from the shop and I was like, What's happened? She was like, Oh, uh this happened, this is this. And I was like, Okay, I was like, Was it our fault? And she was like, I I I opened the door, I didn't look, and I was like, all right, cool. So I went up to the guy, and as soon as I got up there, he was like, Right, so and I was like, right, before it begins, it was our fault. What do you want to do about it?

SPEAKER_06 45:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Like, I don't care. Like, let's just let's just fix it. I'm not here to say, well, you shouldn't have bit. I don't care. Yeah, like nothing matters. Like, let's just resolve it and move on with our life.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Yeah, and and it's like, you know, like I mean, it's like like just I mean, uh being being able to accept blame with stuff when it's I mean it's it's how I mean it's how you learn as well. It's a trouble when people when when when there's like uh like yeah, but or like whatever, and you're you're looking at that's the lens you look at everything through. It's like yeah, or yeah, that this happened, but it wasn't my fault because of you know that that this or the other. It's like well, then then invariably you're not gonna learn let like let yeah lessons became like if it's you're refusing to accept, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

And it's like I don't want that.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Yeah, it just you're you're you're you're you know, if if if you if you if you can't look at if you're looking in the mirror and kind of you're saying, Well, I never do anything wrong, or like these all the all these must be nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Must be nice being so perfect.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

I I'm I'm I'm I'm sure yeah, and any person that's doing that uh or things like that is like there's plenty that they they yeah, it must be nice, but they also have a th uh a thousand daggers being stared in the back of the head.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

100%.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

100%. Yeah, um right. Well, it sounds like I need to send you some scripts and we should get some work done.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Yeah, yeah, no, I was always happy to to to um to to read. I mean it's like I can only only uh uh prompt like uh my my my reading list is always relatively long and I'm I'm I'm not not the the quickest to to get there, but I'll always do and always at the very least promise um some vaguely uh moderate feedback.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Um perfect. That's all I need. And I'm also one last little thing about that. Uh all feedback's good feedback.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

As couldn't care less if you tell me to pile a shit for this reason, cool.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Yeah, yeah. Good topic. Yeah, so I think yeah, constructive feedback is like you're not not you saying saying the character's weak is is not good feedback. It's like the character's weak because of this, yeah. I want to see more of this.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Even even if again everything's subjective, right, so it's like yeah, well, it's it's that thing is it's if someone says, I think it might have been um Rob McElhen he said it, where it's like if someone says this scene doesn't work because of this, don't listen to the because of this bit. This scene doesn't work, is the only thing that matters. This scene doesn't work, right? Okay, that's it. Right, okay. I'll work on that. Yeah. Like, because the other bit is an opinion.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, which is which yeah, again, and if if the trouble is, obviously, everyone will give you that yeah, anyone who reads it will give you their opinion, and then you're like, you know, you've got a thousand opinions and you go back to read the scene, rewrite the scene, and you'll say, I have no fucking clue what's up from down. Yeah, like you know, like if you have everyone's yeah, you have everyone's button.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

But I felt that I felt that with a film I watched recently where I was watching it and I was like, oh, you've you've let the six production companies all say, I think, and you've gone, okay. Yeah, and you didn't think to go, well, that contradicts this one. So we can't have both. So let's not have either.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

But that that that unfortunately is is the is where you get to in the studio system. I mean that's that's why they they kind of you know pick up pick up kind of like you know, Colin, Trevor Mo, or um Chloe Zow, like you know, people that do the indie films, and then they go out and they suck them up into the big, yeah, the big kind of yo Disney stuff, and and then you go like Marvel and then you go, okay, right, well, uh, and then and there's like uh a gabillion producers in the in the room, which that that that infuriates me anyway. And they all have they they all all of them are validating their their their um place at the table by giving kind of subjective opinions. And that's the that's the trouble with all of these the top end of the films nowadays, is like they're all it's designed by committee, and and like that's why that's the that was always the thing. That's why independent films are always so good, was because it's like it's one one creative at the at the center of it, maybe with with one or two other kind of people in in their ear. Um, and that makes for a much more concise and good film rather than just like you, like a massive nonsense that and then play.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Some of the those films, some of the 90s thrillers I've been watching, like you three producers at most.

SPEAKER_06 49:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

And then you put on something new, and there's just C after C of like, and there's six executive producers, and there's 15 people produced it, and there's two associate producers, and you're like, doing what, man? How? How have you done any of this?

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Fuck all man it's it's yeah, yeah, it's it's uh yeah, the well, the it's the produced by credits are the ones that people have actually done it, and then the rest are just like ones they've had to give up at some point to uh again, and obviously very producer credits and very obviously have like uh very strong opinions about who should get them and who shouldn't get them. And it was even like Stephen Follows um did a did a thing about like how many producers on a film has has changed over time and since the 2010s, how much has gone up, and then also just like the the quality of the films have they got better or worse, and you know, nominally, I mean I I think I'm generalizing what he said, but uh I I might be manipulating it slightly. But I think on on the on the whole, it was like the more producers the the the less good the film in in some respects.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Um and obviously the budgets are inflated because they're just they're on like oh I I want my friend to get a producer credit on this and let them get 600,000 for nothing.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

And it's like what no, fuck off. Like if if Tom Tom Cruise says, I'll I yeah I want to do your movie, but like I want my mate Dan to do to be uh producer on it, otherwise I won't do it. Like then you're like, Alright, hi Dan. Yeah, a lot of his mate is Dan. I mean, depending on the film and and yeah, everything like uh necessarily want want want Tom Cruise for for for every point of it. Like if it's like that's like you he he fits and everything else, or whoever it is, uh then you're like okay, well it's it's either it's either we don't get him, we have to go somewhere else, uh uh, or we have to suffer Dan for the for the rest of the I don't know who Dan is, but imaginary friend.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Uh sure, sure, sure. We all know a Dan mate.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Oh, there are there are many Danes. There are many so many. Yeah. And they can all fuck off.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Oh yeah. I hope they succeed in everything that they claim to do. But uh yeah. Um we should probably start with the questions.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Yeah, yeah, sorry. We divulged into many uh different things.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

No, no, no. I the these bits are usually my favourite bit because it's shop talk and I like shop talk shop talk shop. Um you've mentioned a few films now that uh have hinted and age as well. Are you sub-40?

SPEAKER_01 52:11

Yeah, just that 39. I was uh I was uh a few weeks ago, so uh yeah, I'm uh I'm circling the toilet of my 40s uh imminently.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

We all are, we all are, don't worry about it. It's only a couple of years for me, we're fine. Um so we might have similar similar film choices, which is always a nice thing because I can agree that I've seen them as well. But what was the uh first film that you saw at the cinema?

SPEAKER_01 52:37

So I was I don't because I've I've thought about this before. I'm I'm not 100% true. Um like like um like and like whether whether I know it's the first one or not, but so I know the the first the first two I remember definitively uh was Lion King, uh obviously, uh and and Andre, the the one about the seal.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

I went see that at the cinema. So I I remember I remember those two. I think um I might might have gone and seen like you know another another Disney film or or uh or or something else uh before that. But I mean that was I mean that they I was like six when they came out, I think. So yeah, it would have been yeah, that like I I can't remember like before that, but I was I was I was watching films before that just at home.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Yeah, video video guy.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Yeah, yes, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Oh mate, I've still got s quite a few of my VHS and I love 'em.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

I love 'em. And nothing nothing they will play them anymore, but uh, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Oh no, no. No, no, no. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Oh, well respect for that.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

My Laserdisc player only just broke, but I got a VHS player, I got all the Blu-ray like 4K multi-region. Essentially, I can watch most things. I got uh an 8mm projector up there, I got two 16mm projectors. Like there's it's only 35 mil I can't watch in my house.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

I mean, that's not a bad brag to have, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

I mean, you're gonna be doing well, but like the dream is to have jaws on every format. Oh, yeah. And I'm nearly there. I haven't got it on 35 or 16, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Yeah, well, I mean, that's that if if if if you get that, I mean that's that's a collection of the whole. That's that that's that feather on your cap you have to wear at all times, then.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Well, I did a a shift as a projectionist once at the Prince Charles in London, and they had reels like three and four of Jaws, and I was like, uh what are you doing with them? They're like not giving them to you.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

I was like, Well, fucking fuck's sake. Yeah, I mean to be uh I mean uh you'd have I'm sure that if that that they they exist out there, but they cost you a pretty penny if you uh Oh yeah yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Uh I the closest I got was a 16 mil of jaws went for about three grand um about ten years ago. And I I put in my bid. It was not three grand. Uh it might have been 1800 my bid. I mean I mean, you know, that's still a still a chunk of change. Yeah. And then when it didn't, uh the the relief washed over me and I bought a motorbike instead.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Which was for probably probably more handy, like that's cool in conversations, but no, this this was a piece of shit motorbike, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

I stuck a lot of money into that. So moral of the story is like should have got yours. Yeah, yeah. Should have got yours. I got my eight mil singing in the rain, so that feels oh, that's kind of cool. That's a nice one. That's a nice one. Um, so Andre and Lion King. I saw Lion King. I remember crying my eyes out when uh Mufasa died, and then my gran berating me, be like, What are you crying for?

SPEAKER_06 55:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

And I was like, because he's dead, the dad's dead.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

She was like, oh. Yeah, that I mean that that's kind of like uh like a traumatizing moment. There's obviously, yeah, I mean it's a your formative years as well. All the like like you know, most like kids' films and stuff like that, you know, death is handled very uh like very tactfully. And I feel like uh Lion King's very just like like you know, that obviously that father-son relationship is is is such a kind of a powerful dynamic, anyway. But like so, so kind of like in that film, it's so important and so you know, for the first part of it, and then you're just like I don't know what to do with this information.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

This is like also like there's the betrayal, you know, Scar, like his own brother.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

Yeah, like there's someone about that king, and just with Jeremy Irons is uh, yeah, the per being being a perfect voice for it. Yeah, just yeah, can't cast it any better. But yeah, they're just yeah, every everything, everything about that, yeah. It's obvious it's yeah, yeah, it's just so traumatizing, and then like it I mean that's kind of you know mortality, but then just like with the gloves off uh for a kid. So I was like, fucking hell, this is this was raw. So yeah, no, I wasn't. We're in the big leagues now, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:43

This ain't teenage winterinch turtles no more. This is real.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Right. If if I only if I only need to go back to it, like I need to widen this back and just never watch it past this point.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to be like that with a lot of films though, like uh Independence Day. Um I didn't like seeing the dog almost get like burnt alive in the tunnel. It doesn't get burnt alive at all. But in my head, I was like, that's too close. I don't like that. And I won't watch any more of this. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure I haven't seen Independence Day all the way through.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

So I I like there was I I had I mean there's more like with all the ones I I used to uh I mean guess we'll come we'll come on to those, but like I used to just wind past a lot of stuff, like the uncomfortable bits like uh like uh Robocup was like one. I mean I I watched a shit ton of films very early. Yeah, and like you know, the first scene the Robocop was getting shot, like literally just like obliterated by bullets. I was like, yeah, no, I can't watch that. So it always went past.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

But in my head, it's so much worse to the point where I watched it, re-watched it recently, about the 4K of it, and I watched it and I was like, that's all that happens to Murphy? Like I I I pictured it a bit like a Kira, like and like just being absolutely like blown away into dust, and it was like, oh no, he just got a few bits shot and wasn't that bad. He could have walked out of that, like you know, he could have just you know pulled it together. Yeah, it could have been a bit tougher. Like, you know, look, he's a Detroit cop. I expect better.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

Yeah, exactly. You'd expect that wouldn't be the first time he's been shot a couple of times, so thank you.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Jeez, jeez. Um, and Andre, that actor, she did a lot of work and then nothing.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Yeah, I I I mean to be honest, I can't even remember other than that. Like, I mean, ultimately it's like flipper with a seal, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 58:32

Like yeah, which was uh um she was uh the uh in Napoleon Dynamite.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Oh really?

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Yeah, you know the girl that sells like the the jewellery, yeah. That's her.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

I did not know that. That that's uh that's kind of an interesting link. I knew I knew I liked her.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Two two great films she's been a part of. Uh uh, but yeah, that was always the thing with time. I'd retire. Just like on a high, like Napoleon Dynamite pizza guys I've done, I've done On Android, I've done the Napoleon Dynamite. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

Done everything I need to do here.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Um there was a lot of uh child actors that that did that. Like, you know, I mean there was a lot of them that they're kind of uh I can't remember the name, but the girl played the Matilda and and and then Holly Joe Osmond and that were the they did they were like everywhere for like a few years and then they're just all obviously just cashed in their chips and like Jonathan Lipniki. Jesus, that's uh that's a name and a half.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Right. And he was everywhere. You couldn't you couldn't move for that the spectacled blonde boy, but yeah, but he was great.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

He was he was um Beethoven as well, wasn't he? He was in uh was he in Beethoven? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Maybe he was in Jerry Maguire.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

And Stuart Little.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Yeah, yeah. No, I I I don't know, yeah, maybe that was they they were uh later then, so he made he wasn't in those. I think there's I mean obviously that like a a spectacled young young uh young uh boy is uh I mean it's I think like you know the honey ice trunk the kids and stuff as well, like there's always like one in there. So and and like home alone, there's uh there's one of the yeah that cousins. So I yeah, I I'll be honest, I am terrible with well, names of films, actors, and generally people. Um uh oh really yeah, just uh uh limited brain capacity. So I feel like if I if I carried on remembering everyone's names that I just forget to breathe or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

I I've said before, I wish I knew maths the way I knew uh film trivia. Yeah. Film trivia is pointless. I wish I just knew maths.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

Yeah, I'd be a lot easier. I used to I used to be a lot better, you know. I used to I used to say it used to be like you know, any uh like like uh any anytime I knew I could I could tell you names, directors, you know, movies, whatever. Um and and yeah, I could I could cite everything, but I just I just I don't know I don't know why that whether it's just my fingers is not on the pulse anymore, which is probably why. And and obviously I'm just uh older and more senile now, but uh um yeah, it's it's a mixture of all the above. But yeah, definitely like uh yeah, shocking, shocking memory for names now.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Going to the cinema as a kid though was always uh a fun. Like I I was a like were you a big like did you were you a big cinema family? Did you go often?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Yeah, well uh not not as often as uh I like to me. I watched so many films. I mean I was uh quite happy to watch where we lived the the cinema was was uh a 40 minute journey away. Um so it was like you were like or like so it's like an hour and a half round trip um for the child. So so it was always like a it was like a big thing. It wasn't just like I will pop to the cinema.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Um so because of that it was definitely more of a you know a like a big a big event thing, or like there was like it was never the like as a family, it was never our our our our first thing to do, but like it so most most of it was why I watch watched his films at home. Um so it was like more so than the cinema, but then obviously as I got older it became you know when uh got like uh school school and college and that then then then obviously when I could go to places under my own steam, then it became like a whole thing. Um yeah, for that. But so sad sadly, I can't say it was uh I was hanging out in the cinema every every uh week in in uh in my formative years. Shame.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Yeah, shame.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

Um so what films did you watch over and over again as a kid if you're a if you're a VHS guy? I imagine you wore through your fair share of Adam's family volunteered.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

Yeah, well, I mean it was it was good because like I mean, I guess it depends because I like where like what age it was, because I went like my parents were always super cool with like we could watch anything, like you know, but they all they loved the action films, so so I was watching like you know, Arnold's watching negative films, but yeah, watching terminator too before I was 10.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

Um I my my mum would just whenever it was the arm scene, she would just say look away, boys, and that would be it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Yeah, oh I didn't even have that. Like we just like we we were literally middle of the day, it's like a you know Saturday afternoon, and we're like mum, can we watch the like RoboCop? And she's like, Yeah, go go go nuts. Yeah, crack on, yeah, go crazy. Yeah, I like she. I mean, yeah, she she she was she was always super cool, like you know, like but you um I mean she she like uh recorded a lot off the TV, so just it was whatever on TV, but then so there's we had we had tapes where I mean in like Indiana Jones was one that we had all we had kind of all three at some point that all recorded um off the telly, and then like those ones they got the tapes got so fucked up because we'd watched them so many times. Yeah, like then the F you know next time it was on TV I'd had to kind of uh re-record it again, uh kind of thing. So so yeah, I mean yeah, Indiana Jones was a was a was a big one. I watched that uh like I don't know how many times I've seen all three of those. Um nice and then uh like Ghostbusters, uh both both uh one one and two, though they're they were once uh I watched again a butt ton, um like Terminator 2. I mean it's all it's all before I was like, yeah, like well ultimately from like I think like eight and up, I was I was watching all of these and uh and you know just uh happily um Star Wars as well, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Um yeah, that was Did were you a Star Wars guy before the re-release in like 97?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Yeah, yeah, really yeah, no, I I I uh I mean we we we just cause because again like well my mum liked them, or both my mum and my dad liked them. Um and um so you know, so they they they they always watched them, they were on Connor TV, and uh you know, obviously so she recorded them um for for us, and then so we watched them you know again and again, but specifically me. I was like a brother, brother and a sister, but me and my brother used to watch you know all all these all these kind of ones together.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:50

Where are you in the uh sibling hierarchy? You're the eldest, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Uh I think swear as the second child, uh hard to screw. I mean, I I'm I'm of the opinion my parents should have quit while they were ahead. Didn't didn't get any better.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

They realized uh that not only weren't they gonna do any better than their than my brother, they realized we can't afford for it to get any worse, so let's just stick with two.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

Yeah, probably I think uh yeah, my my mum, my mum wanted a uh a daughter, so I think that's uh that's like they they they span span the roulette rear one last time. Yeah uh and got lucky.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:28

It better be a girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

Yeah, thank fuck. And three boys that would be heavy. I mean two boys is enough, but Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

Yeah, I I don't think I could uh as a man who's pretty short certain I'm not gonna have kids, like two three boys would be the absolute worst.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

Yeah, that's a handful that is. Um three I mean to be fair, three kids have anything that my parent my parents have my uh adoration for that because like yeah, three kids is is is a handful.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Well you're outnumbered.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Yeah. Well yeah, there could have been many a coup d'etat like in in our in our uh our household, like in Yeah, exactly. Run right. Like yeah, Lord of the Florida.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Could have been Revolutionary France over there. Um so yeah, so you got In Jenna Jones's you watched over, Ghostbusters, Terminator. Like it is weird how um parents didn't I don't think parents cared. Like I wasn't allowed to watch The Exorcist or The Omen. Um horror films were a hard no, but like Terminator, they didn't care. Um they didn't want to take us to see Jurassic Park at the cinema because they think the dinosaur would have scared us. The dinosaur, the T-Rex. I it really betrayed the fact that I'm a massive Jurassic Park fan there. Um but you know, the dinosaur, the dinosaur in Jurassic Park. And uh like there was a lot of anything that was horror, they were like, no, but anything that was gore couldn't care less.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

Yeah. Yeah, I mean and and to be fair, like I again I always really appreciate that because again, there was well, I mean, there's all there, I mean, you know, fair fair enough for some parents to be like a little bit more like, oh you can't absolutely can't watch that. That's too that's uh far too kind of old to be like you know when watching like 18 films like when I'm when I'm eight. Um I mean it was like that I well don't think it's uh obviously as as a kind of uh an adult now it hasn't hasn't kind of uh made me like bloodthirsty or incited violence and kind of you know. I think that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Like I I got friends who have sons and daughters and they are like, no, they're 12, they will only watch things up to 12. They're 15, they can only watch things up to 15. Like the idea to me that it's like their 16-year-old son couldn't watch an 18-rated film. I was like, fucking, come on, man. I let them watch it. But I I get it, and I'm like, oh, that must be quite nice actually for them to experience the film as it is intended for them. Whereas I was shown alien far too long.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

Well, I mean, I get it, but then also that that that's a seminal experience anyway. And then and then but I also think it's kind of like you the I think it's a good way to because like looking back now, I mean it it's how it's how will you learn a lot of morality watching films that you that are older than you because you you uh um you know the right the rights and wrongs and kind of like I I think it's a it's a good thing to see because obviously if you're spring-fed kind of like uh you know like rainbows and poppy dogs and and kind of the the even Disney dog, you know, Disney, yeah, you know, if if if you think everything's like you know Disnified in in reality and you know like romance is like I mean there's plenty of people that say like you know their interpretation of right right romance and and relationships is all kind of prince and princesses from from Disney, which is kind of you know, I mean spash it anywhere. I mean even as a person that likes Disney films. Um but yeah, that that's not that's not something to kind of like be like that's not something to take your insight for for kind of as as growing up, right? I think yeah, yeah, I think in a in a lot of ways it's it's kind of beneficial to watch some of these things earlier because you just you just uh you I mean you see a lot more and and you know when you when your brain's a lot more like amenable, and obviously if you if you've you know got clear boundaries of right and wrong and what they are, then yeah, I think that all kind of bleeds into kind of into a positive way as opposed to kind of um you know what in the some of the some of the kind of like you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

Because it's because I did mimic what I saw, but only in um Jackie Chan films.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

Like it's really weird. Like I I I watched a lot of horror like when I shouldn't have. I watched a lot of action films because they were given a pass. I wasn't going out there recreating, you know, hideous scenes. But after watching Jackie Chan films, I was like, I'm gonna try and jump off that wall. I'm gonna see if I can do a forward roll and then you know jump into this thing. And then I had a buddy called Trevor, and at school we used to watch loads, and like his family were uh from Hong Kong, so they would bring over VCDs and we'd watch all these VCDs from like Hong Kong of Jackie Chan films, and we'd then go jump off his roof. You know what I mean? Like we would do that. So obviously it could have gone horribly wrong. I could have watched like the worst of the worst films and been like, yes. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go murder some people. Yeah, but I didn't. Yeah, instead, I thought I'm gonna twist my ankle in the funniest of ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:16

Yeah, well, exactly. And I you know, obviously, any anytime they do come up, obviously that there's there's people that you know that happened with the Matrix, and then like they've gone, they've they've gone kind of like loopy and thought they and that like you know done terrible things, and the same with like but the Batman uh and uh and stuff. I was like, but that's you know, obviously those stories get kind of brought up and and and talked about. Um but um but that's what there's like one or two people, and and frankly, they don't they don't sound like fully rounded individuals anyway. And you know that um there's plenty of us in the world, I'm sure, that exactly like us have have watched kind of things way too like uh way too uh early than they should have done.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

Oh I've seen some absolutely atrocious things in my life. Like that I wish I hadn't seen, yeah. But that's not affected me in that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Yeah, I mean sure, I'm sure there's some night terrors and everything I get nowadays, but you know, it's uh look. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Only only Kirsty has to deal with the screams. I don't gotta deal with the screams.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

I don't hear 'em. My neighbours hate me, but you know.

unknown 1:11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:21

You get you it's like white noise, you just drones out.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Um exactly. So I guess then the first uh R-rated film you saw and how old you were, that's gonna be quite uh.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

Yeah, I mean I was like I I I I couldn't I couldn't tell you again well because I the other thing I was always a shit sleeper. Um so my my dad was a was was uh a hero and brought home basically this old this old chitty TV from he had from work. Um and then so I I I had I had like the TV in my room like when I was uh yeah like nine, I think. And then so like channel channel four like movies for a lot uh any time of day or like you know BBC T sometimes as well. I was channel five movies. Yeah. All the best stuff. Yeah, all the good stuff. Uh um the yeah, like uh the uh that was uh like it just because I watched way more way more stuff and like even my you know my parents wouldn't like even if they were freshing it they were like I was I watched the Exorcist when I was I think I must have been 10 or 11 and that fucked me up like Alien Asians. I watched those like around the same time as well. Um so uh yeah, like I watched a lot of a lot of them like the like on channel four like late at night that I shouldn't have. Um and then yeah, you know, just I mean, because I I mean uh Robo Cup was an 18, I think, wasn't it? Yeah. Um like Total Recall, I watched that like my mum bought that for me on VHS. Um beautiful. So yeah, like I I was yeah, it was I couldn't couldn't tell you to tell you what the first ones were, but yeah, there were there was yeah, I was watching.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

I think it's the uh what was it the household with the older brother was always like you know you're gonna get like they're gonna have total recall, they're gonna have something called a manuel. I don't know what that is, but that looks fancy. Like, you know what I mean? You were gonna like there was always like an older brother out there who had like one series of X-files, and you'd be like, what's this Toons episode? Yeah. And then everyone would be talking about it. And I quite missed that. Like, I don't think I've seen a film where I was nervous about watching it. Like, unfortunately, it's now just like weird Italian sexploitation films where I'm like, ugh. Dog lay afternoon, simulated bestiality. Do I need to see that? I don't know. Simulated, thank fuck. But it's also like I guess that's the closest I'm gonna get to when I was a kid being like, I shouldn't be watching Easy Rider.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:52

Yeah, but but that was the beauty of it then. Again, it's like you you know, like, because it was it was like uh and because it was like the the the the physicalness of like you had to get it off the shelf and put it into the or like you had to you had to you borrowed it from your mate and you had to kind of secretly do it like where you know um where when no one was home because of that you like because it like or you had to like late at night or whatever. Uh and now it's just like you know, you I mean obviously as long as you've got device you can probably watch something and and so the the novel yeah I mean it's uh a lot easier. There's a lot less kind of like I shouldn't be doing this uh thing now, which I I so I think and I think that was kind of like a cool part of being a kid in the in the in the 90s, it's like you know, there were still still things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

Uh um yeah, and then there is a lot to say about like you know, the internet meaning you have every book, every film, everything at your fingertips.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:45

It's like, yeah, that is useful, yeah, but also it doesn't mean you get to discover like but that that that's always one of the things as like a like you know, tastemakers, and and you then get to find you because I mean even like I mean I I I I I say this a lot, but you know, watching watching films on channel four, like it's like I if if I read the synopsis like you like you do on Netflix now, like you know, read the synopsis in the radio times or whatever, like which is why you I started doing like when I you know uh as as as as like a um or or just what you stuck you just stuck on like alien and so I have no fucking clue what's going on. I didn't even I didn't even know what alien was as a as a as a concept, but I was like, I'm just gonna watch this. Yes, film about aliens, that'll be fun. Yeah, I'm like it's it's dark and kind of uh interesting a bit. I'm a bit scared, but like um, but you know, and and and it's a thing of like well it's either that or you or you shut the TV off. And then but there was there was stuff like you know that I watched that I would I would never have if if I watched the if I read the synopsis or like um look like looked at it as a as a poster, I'll be like, yeah, nah, probably not. Yeah, and and that's the thing now, is like what I've you know, watching so many films because oh, you didn't have a have the choice, you're just like, well, it's that or nothing, or just like you know, you went around a mate's house and they said they had like you that on the shelf, so you just sort of watch that. Like there were the you expanded your horizon so much more. So I feel like you know, the with with so much, I mean the same with music as well, like you that when you have all the choice, it makes it more overwhelming to make a decision, but then you oh yeah, and then and then you've got Netflix algorithms saying, Well, you know, oh well, you like this, this, and this, or just watch all of these things because they're the same as what you've just watched. But then what you do want is like you know, like a I don't know, like a left of field choice. Um, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:25

Well, I took myself out of all the streaming services. I was like, I'm done with this, I don't want them anymore. So I went back to physical. And it was it at first, this was only one shelf of films that needed to be watched. There's now you can't see it, there's half full, full, full, full of unwatched. Right. So it used to be like, oh, I've only got a shelf full of films that I haven't watched. I'll just pick any of those films, it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

And whatever. Now it's five or six shelves, and I'm like, oh god, paralysis of choice again.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

Fuck.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

Like, I need to scale this down.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

Yeah. No, well, it used to be like I've still got my DVD in Blu-ray collection um uh as well. And I'm like, I mean, I think I think I can watch anymore. Which one Kung Fu dunk.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:14

Oh wow, that's uh not see it's the same guys that did Shaolin soccer, yeah, yeah. Stephen Chao film.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

That's gonna be good. That was their vibe, just uh yeah, like Kung Fu and sport just in in one film. That's yeah, yeah, I'm intrigued. Um yeah, I so I've I've that but I used to I used to love even when I used to the the first DVD I had was The Mummy, and I watched that quite so many times, and then there was you you get kind of like 10 films, and I was as well you know, again similar things to what I used to do on VHS, you used to watch them all the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:48

Um and uh those first run DVDs when they had really good menus and special features. Yeah. Love them. Yeah, oh I mean that's mainly why I still prefer uh DVDs over most formats, is because of the special feature. I love a documentary. I love show me how it was made. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:04

They used to be so cool, and I just you know you burn another, I mean, yeah, with a D what you'd watch a film and watch the watch the you know the the all the kind of the the bits they put on there as well. I know I'm I that used to be like uh I don't even know. I just I assume they just don't do things like that anymore, just like in in the same way.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:18

Are they just part of the EPKs or just you know the it's kind of part of the EPK, but like even if it's on um like a 4K, the amount of 4K films I have that have just the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:29

And it's like, what what the fuck you on about? My my I have to keep I have to. I have to, all right. I have to keep it. But my 4K of uh The Martian has nothing on it, but my Blu-ray of The Martian has loads of special features. So I'm a bit like I'm gonna have to keep both in case I want to watch the special features in case to get you out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:49

I have to watch one special features of one Martial Sunday, you're like, I must watch the special features of the Martian.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:55

I need to know how Ridders did it. Um but there's like I have a couple of films where it is just like the thing, my 4K of the thing has nothing on it. My arrow release of the thing has like three hours of documentaries, and it's like, right, well, I need both now because I want the best quality picture, but I also want all the documentaries.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:15

Yeah, which is it's it's crazy to me that they don't put those on me. And I I guess it's it's it's rights and kind of uh you know, all the all the boring stuff, but like, yeah, that was that was the epitome that I mean that's what made DVD so good and having all those, and then you know some of them had to even like get like crazy like games on them and stuff. I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:32

Yeah, or some Easter eggs where you had to like find them, yeah, and then you'd get a deleted scene.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

Yeah, I just thought, well that I mean that was that was part of it. I was uh that was the first interactive films.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:42

There we go. Netflix, move aside, you weren't doing it first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. DVDs were. But yeah, I I miss them. Um I miss I miss not like them being as prevalent and going over to someone's house and checking out their collection, you know? Like we were saying about you go over and you'd sort of be like, Oh, what's that? What's that from? I've no I've seen that actor, but I've never seen that, but like my I remember mentioning Koyonis Kotzi to my dad once, and he was like, How the f how do you know about these types of films? Where did you learn that? And I'm like, a friend had it, and I wanted to know why it was such a weird jumble of letters, yeah. And that's why I asked. And then I watched it, and it turns out I fucking loved it. And that got me into Baraka, Krona, Samsara, like watching all of them and being like, ah mate, I fucking love this kind of stuff. Like, and then just going into really obscure, like Polish cinema that kind of has that, but it's not, and you're like, oh great, and I missed that like organic discovery, and you know, like, oh, I we have similar likes, so what films do you like that I've never heard of? Or yeah, go on, give me some of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

It was a real thing, because like I mean, it was always a thrill to kind of discover a film you yourself like and then and then kind of like you talk to anyone about it. I mean, that's one of the joys of especially if you if you love if you love film and cinema, like you'd be like, oh yeah, like have you heard of this one? And I mean, I think we like you if if you if you're a film geek, then you still get it because obviously there's always you I mean, invariably there's always like uh any any conversation with another film geek you ends up with something neither of you have seen before that one of you, yeah. You can trade a trade a uh uh a film that one of you hasn't seen, and then and then like you know, you've got something to go and watch. But like finding like a hidden gem is and and then being able to gift it to someone else as well. That's that's the kind of the the the one that's like yeah, if you know if you know someone's film taste and you're like, oh, have you seen, I don't know, like yeah, what Kyle and the squats are your you know, you have have you have it have you seen this or that or the other? It's it's like and then they go no, and then and then you they come back to you and go, Oh my god, that was incredible. Um hopefully that's what you want. They go, that was shit, why didn't you make me watch that?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

Um uh yeah, but then again, I've got certain friends, so I'm friends with the guys over at Caliber Nine from Out of Space podcast, and they do a great like um they they do two B movies and then they talk about it. And I've been on it a couple of times, and that's great because I love I love a shitty B movie. I absolutely love it, and it can be absolute horseshit of films, and I'll be like five stars perfect. That's exactly what I wanted. So when they say to me, like, you should watch this film, and I'm like, Oh yeah, and it's absolute horseshit, and I'm like, usually we are in sync. Like, what the fuck has happened there? And then we have this great discussion of like, how the fuck did you like this pile of shit? And then you realize it's from like um oh, an audience and a filmmaker perspective. I'm like, that's lazy filmmaking. And they're like, as an audience, it's great fun. I'm like, I can't, it's so annoying. So then it's great, yeah. But I I really enjoy that. I I actually I prefer it when people don't like my film choices because then I'm like, go on.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:51

Yeah, well, having a debate about it's fun as well. And like again, they're yeah, they're the best debate about about and and and anything, like you know, when you get people that have like kind of have like kind of strong opinions both sides and not not ultimately, no, no, they're most subjective, but it's just fun to just kind of um throw throw it back and forwards. And it's like I mean to be fair, there's there's there's a few that I I've I used to rave about. Um I try to think what an example, but um when I was yeah, when I was younger, I'd be like, Oh, you and I'll to like uh like you know to my to my mates at university or you know uh my uh ex-housemates be like, oh yeah, we've got to watch it, this film's amazing, it's incredible. Yeah, and then and then you're like we're watching, I'm like, nah, this is pretty shit, actually. This is not this is not like a slab of nostalgia, like uh in like you know, not like nine-year-old me was thinking this is a great film, and uh you know, like I mean they're gonna like double double team, the uh the Jean-Claude Van Damme Dennis Rodman uh uh film was I think absolutely incredible. Watched it again uh in my twenties and was like fucking hell, that was that is utter garbage. But I still enjoyed it, but it's a it's a terrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

It's on the shelf somewhere, uh, and I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:04

Like, why is Rodman in a different he's got different hair colour every scene, doesn't he? Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:08

Yeah, but I mean that that that that's the acutely Dennis Rodman, but uh it just it just it just is uh like it's it's nuts. And like, yeah, that that's Bonkers film.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:17

Yeah, Van Dam was never my guy. When Van Dam's good, I think he's excellent. Time cop, love it. Brilliant film, yeah. Perfect film. But then like Hard Target, I didn't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:30

I loved Hard Target.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:32

Everyone else I know loves Hard Target, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:34

I mean, I mean I I was I I I love I love Uncle Van Dam. Like even even some of his terrible The Quest, the Quest was a bad film as well. I love that quest. I mean that that it's basically like a fighting tournament uh that he goes into like you know out of Mongolia or somewhere to win and uh so it's just kickboxer again. Basically, yeah. I mean it's it's it's uh why break the model? Why break it? Exactly. I mean, and and I'll I was there for it, you know. I was uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:59

I mean uh I can't tell you how many Jackie Chan films are the exact same fucking thing where I've gone cinema. Yeah, love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:06

I'm just but like it's same same same but different, and um do another backflip, yeah, perfect. Yeah, I'm so here for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:17

Um what was uh yeah, so we've mentioned a lot of uh stupid films, safe to say, uh not in a shitty way when I say that, but like yeah, classic cinema. Um but what was the first film you watched that you uh considered like grown up?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:37

I I yeah, I I guess I I like I mean maybe even uh it could have been the line games because again, because we're just talking about with the with the kind of the things that I think that's this this is different from everything that I yeah, I'm used to this kind of like gloves off now. Um but uh yeah, again, just because my like my yeah, my my my parents was like always super cool um like that. So just you know, very uh I don't know, very early on I was just watching things that you know that were um you know uh yeah grow grown up films, so it was uh never never really thought, oh I'm allowed to watch this now, so I feel more grown up. It was it was a case of just like yeah, go nuts, watch that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:19

But I think there is that um that sort of that like watermark where you're like The Terminator is a adults film, right? It's for adults, but it's not a grown-up film, you know. You a lot of people have sort of been like Shawshank because uh it wasn't the first genre film or it wasn't the first whatever. And I think Easy Rider was one for me. It was the first time I watched like a counterculture film and it really upset me that they die at the end. Spoilers, but if you've not seen at this point, get fucked around. But and and and like for me, I was like, what's this weird New Orleans scene where they drop acid and nothing happens? They're just doing acid, like what's going on? And as a kid not quite understanding that and like that for me was like oh this isn't um this isn't a movie, this is a film. And it's like, oh, okay. And like you know, so I agree with you, like you know, we were shown I don't know if we were shown Leon, but like I overheard Leon and like there are films that are not for kids, but uh we saw them, but then there were films that I saw which were like, oh, oh, this isn't uh entertainment, this isn't popcorn. This is you know, a hearty meal.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:42

I guess I I can remember like definitely when I when I watched uh because again like fight fight club when it came on the the the when it was on to in TV um and what year that is um fight club was it then?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:53

Well it came out in '99. So TV probably 2001.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:56

Yeah, something like that. So I'll I mean I mean I guess I'm I'm like I'm still Still on on my my firm um um diet of of horror and action and and and and you know 90s thrillers and stuff. But that was that was I think that was one of the ones uh yeah, I what I I there was like kind of that was one of the first ones I was like, okay, this is like I I didn't didn't like the the like I I watched and I was like, oh this is uh this is like I'm I'm thinking things now.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:25

I'm not I'm yeah, I can't let this wash over me. Yeah, I've got to think.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:28

Yeah, and and and like then I was not I'm not quite sure. Uh so I watched it um twice cut quite close together because I was like, I'm I don't think I've got all of that. I'm quite sure uh you know um I think there was more to it than uh than uh um yeah the the the the the the meets the eye and not yeah like just the whole almost the whole thing of um uh you know uh Brad Brad Pitt being kind of hit hit him um like I like that almost kind of completely went out washed over me the first time I watched even oh nice I was like I was like fucking hell though this is uh I just it was what was very confusing and then and then yeah like I think again it was just because I I'd been on a steady stream of of films that had no real mental challenge to them so then that was that was one that I was like fuck they were just as surface as they could be yeah it was being spoon shed like you to a T and and like yeah I'm I'm I'm here I'm I'm still here for that but I do I don't they're like a uh like being challenged a little bit every now and again look I I think in this in the with everything like there's some days I might want to watch a Bellatar film there aren't many but there are there are some and there are other days where I just want to watch the second teenage meet Ninja Turtles film and yeah that's and you have to have both you have to have both yeah not but that that's that I mean yes correct um like uh variety is a spice of life isn't it a massive exactly you know watching if if you if you watch nothing but just like films like all the time then then you again there are there are there are people like you again where you have kind of uh like they'll they'll they'll they'll get snooty you unless when you when you start uttering about you know like kind of 80s and 90s or 70s 80s and 90s uh you beef movies or like you actually oh that's not that's not cinema I'm like what it is uh it's more cinema than some of the shit yeah I've seen mate yeah yeah like come on come on just yeah cut cut cut like get get up get off your your your your big old horse there and uh come down play yeah really I bet like yeah it's really fun yeah like yeah and I do think you do need you do need to have both because I I a friend um was working with someone and she was gonna get rid of a load of DVDs like give them over to charity and I was like well I'll give you like a tenner instead of giving them to charity I'll give you a tenner and whatever like I'll I'll steal from a charity I don't mind and in the bag there was just like quite a few rom coms and I was like I'll watch some of these eventually but there was also things like the Blair Witch 2 on DVD which is quite hard to track down.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:03

It's dog shit but it's quite hard to track down. So I was like I'll just take the bag you know whatever and then I like and this this all links up I randomly found a copy of Ben Elton's Popcorn the book and I was like I don't have a high opinion of Ben Elton and then he happened to be on Rama Shranga Nathan's podcast and I listened to it and I was like oh I'm wrong I got a high opinion of Ben Elton and then I watched something else oh then he mentioned in that podcast he did Maybe Baby with Hugh Laurie and I was like that was one of the films I had got and I was like oh perfect I'll chuck that on and I watched it and I thought I haven't got a high opinion of Ben Elton he's not good and it was such a weird like journey through it all but I was like but I'm pleased I had it and I'm pleased that my brain wasn't going to be like well we don't watch rom coms it's like no no no we watch rom coms we'll watch anything yeah we'll watch anything that I mean again that that that's the best way because I remember when I did the the uh the top 250 films I was like right I'm gonna go through the this list and and and and watch them all and there's a lot of them on there here it's like you won't watch that like I feel sound isn't it like Hutchie the Richard Gere film about the dog I don't think that was on there when I did it oh god I'm pretty sure it was on the IMDB like 250 for a while and I was always like why why the fuck is that film on there?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:23

I mean there there are some there are definitely some ones that I'm like I'm not sure about that. Um usually are you certain that should be on there is First and Furious 8 really worth it sometimes it's just it's done some some some shit houses kind of just going well we we're just kind of like you know giving lots of lots of yeah just to just kind of for the novelty of uh ri ruining the uh this this this greatly curated list um yeah but yeah but yeah so what watching you know even that's like I like never never it was never into an an anime um uh um yeah into until like I was like then watching um the Ghibli films on um because of that and then I watched I mean Spirited Away is still I mean that's probably one of my favourite films ever now like it's it's uh incredible film um and like yeah we never never watched it or like I was very kind of yourself now and then um you know but you watch things like that and you go so that's it's nice to be surprised like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:18

It is nice to be surprised and I think like I still love it when I get shocked by something. Like you know and I'm trying to think what I saw recently that I was I think it was a Waltham Walter Mathow film. Charlie Varrick I only know Walter Mathow from the Dennis the Menace film that we grew up with the shit one. Like obviously I know him through the odd couple and all that kind of stuff but I I don't know him like I don't know his oeuvre. And then I put on this Charlie Barrick film and I was like that was that's a five out of five that's a perfect film. Like and I was so pleased because it was a blind by it was a it was a three for twenty and I needed a third or something. So I was like I'll just get that you know whatever see how it goes and then I watched it and I was like I had no idea what this was going to be and it was perfect. And now I'm on a Walter Matau like fucking binge at the moment and it's like great great great great like and I think had maybe baby gone the other way I would have watched a load of rom-coms and there are some fucking absolute bangers out there. Like don't get me wrong I really enjoy You've got mail I think it's a great film.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:26

Oh yes You've got mail sleep some Seattle like there's some I mean uh when Harry Mats out there I mean again like I definitely uh there there are some there are some uh pearls out there and there are what there are some of them that are just like they're cool they're rom-coms but they're more like coms than ROMs like you know yes uh they like I there's what is it uh they're all kind of loosely organized and there's uh ROMs that go into com rom coms and and like there's I there's even ones in the middle where I'm like they're not really like they're more funny but they kind of do and it's that sort of like oh what I'm gonna have to move that because then there's definitely giving me a moment where I'm like I want more of a comedy yeah than necessarily the romance bit and yeah. Yeah no that that that's I mean and and and and there also I think correct I mean correct Crazy Stupid Love is is is definitely uh that's a great film but I mean that's just a great film like I mean yeah I guess it's technically it's a maybe a a dramedy a romantic dramedy or something I don't like a yeah I don't know what you bracket as but it's it's a phenomenal film.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:33

It's excellent.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:34

Yeah yeah and that was another one that I wasn't expecting to like and then I think either my mum watched it before me or I watched it before her but either way a suggestion was offered and now it's become like one of the family favorites if you know I mean like that the mummy point break like there's certain films in our family that are just evergreen you know yeah everyone you know that you're everyone will be able like happy sitting watching that at oh yeah at any time yeah the mummy is is the one because I like when we got the video of the mummy my mum watched it uh rewound it and watched it straight away again yeah she was like that was great again like that's all I want what yeah but I say so so my well my my mum my mum is definitely uh yeah I think I I I had I had the mummy and then I bought her the mummy returns on on DVD for yeah so so we so we always have both I mean you've got obviously got went downhill after that so I'm I'm intrigued to see if they do this this the the the the the the new one uh but yeah I don't know if I don't know if I want the new one. No I never I well I never went because it's just I'm always firmly firmly uh of the opinion quit while you're ahead like leave people wanting more rather than you've killed that now.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:47

That's firmly dead and is not going to rise like the mummy.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:52

Yeah um so what film holds a special place in your heart you've mentioned a few things but what's gonna land it um well Jurassic Park's always what like that was again very very similar to you I was always a dinosaur nurse I always always that dinosaur so that that that was always uh one that if yes I used to I I I used to have a uh uh yeah Velociraptor claw that I I have one of those as well knocking around so uh as well as cool cool and I I used to I used to kind of like uh dinosaur kind of like uh cards and my my auntie used to um get me a source I got a full book of all these dinosaur cards oh nice uh which is yeah so full on dinosaur geek and and obviously that I mean it's just a fucking great film still stands out absolute banger perfect film um so so always of that and then um it's good like and then so my not my not my like my favorite films but uh per se but like um but gladiator is definitely uh up there purely because that so there like that was the one that I watched and I was like the just the just all of all of the uh emotions and like the awe of it all um is basically I watched that I was like I want I want to make people feel like that I want to make people feel like this now uh this and bottle up this kind of emotion that I feel at the end of that film and that so that was like I want to I want to I want to make films now.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:14

So that literally Jurassic Park was my one.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:16

Okay so yeah so I mean but is it it's it like the the the the the like those I mean those are I just think they're such in every every every facet they're just like so well crafted films obviously by by absolute uh legends as well yeah um and so but then with Ridders Ridders can give you some stinkers oh yeah I mean he's he I mean he's cool all over the show he's he's fucking hit and miss like his hits are perfect films and his misses are absolute horseshit woeful yeah I mean yeah he he's made though he he's he's got it wrong more than like Spielberg Spielberg's good at you I mean there's all of his films but there's ones you know like they're all there's the there's um the majority of his on my yeah I'm I'm I'm on board yeah a hundred percent like I've got always which I've not watched yet and um like BFG War Horse the these films um I'm like I don't really care yeah but but they're not bad films they're just not for me yeah yeah whereas Ridders yeah they just yeah there's there's there's some real they're real stinkers in there um yeah but I think he would also say that they're stinkers yeah I mean he he he's a he's a he's a he's a confident man he'll uh he'll he'll play play his speaker's mind uh over the the um is it all the money in the world when they when they sacked off Kevin Spacey uh and then um put Christopher Palmer in I think it's Christopher Plummer uh yes plumber uh uh and and and he's like he's talking about afterwards and he's like oh yeah well they they were kind of having a meeting about what to do and he's like well give me give me five more days of filming and you know we should go if we can get everyone else together um and then and the producers are like are you you sure you can do it in that in that timeline he's like yeah because I'm that fucking good like he's a very brash old man way I'm like yeah like I hate I I I think working with you would be an absolute nightmare but I'd be for it I I think it would ruin film making yeah I I've thought that with a lot of like big filmmakers if someone said to me like oh which filmmaker would you want to be on set with to like learn from I'm like well none of the greats because that won't apply to me. Yeah well yeah I don't you're you're you're you're working with them at like at a point in their career where they can't they can just no you know yeah say and do anything and it's it's not necessarily a bad story like that's that's not going to apply to me like I guess Zack Kregger because it's like they're they're about three or four steps ahead of me so I how can I get to you that'll do I that's why I always love Robert Rodriguez because I was just that he was always that kind of like can do kind of like you know came out I mean obviously that you know you can't recite him as an or I mean that's the trouble even now that people cite uh him and Chris Nolan as like you know that's how to start an indie film but that was all when you know there was a DVD in the VHS market and you know you can't you can't make uh uh well yeah I mean you can people do but like you know the the El Mary actually and El Mar actually's not a great film by by well not neither is the following really like the no it's not they're not great films but then like that coming out of that then suddenly getting you know getting kind of like millions of dollars and like you know El Mary actually got got Rodriguez a bidding more and like you know imagine taking a seven grand film to a to a distributor now and they're like alright mate thanks for that off your pop no just no you're not I'm not even gonna take your fucking email yeah yeah well yeah just like you wouldn't even get you wouldn't get to meet them in person anymore like no I mean it's uh it's absolutely bonkers like I love watching uh filmmakers first films because like you can see certain things where you're like oh yeah yeah yeah I can see where they were going with certain things and I can see how they progressed into other stuff but then I always get really bummed out by their second film having like a 15 million budget and you're like fuck off like yeah we on about 15 million or I'd take 15 grand at this point for a fucking feature. Well that's that's the trouble yeah it's it's I just like it just the the the way the way yeah the way the way the way it used to work versus now is I mean yeah don't be wrong it's it's it's still possible but it's a it's a shit ton harder and like everyone's just like like that back in the in the 80s and 90s people with money were just like we well my buddy sent me a thing that apparently the cocaine budget adjusted for inflation on the blues brothers was more than Oppenheimer was cost to make I can I can well believe it. I can well believe it too but it's just like oh god there was so much more money in the 80s yeah yeah always it just it it was it was like we just we just kind of uh timed out before like it was it was like peak when everything was just like uh yeah the the the world's the world the what the world will kind of carry on spinning and like we'll live we'll live forever and everything's great there's always a lot of money like you know and if you're a white middle class man there's money for you. Yeah exactly like you can do you can do it. The world is your oyster like you can just take it we don't care.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:09

Yeah and that they'll they'll say thank you afterwards uh we're we're and uh yeah say uh it's it's uh it was a it was a great time for for some not so much for others but uh yeah but it's it's uh yeah like uh I mean the the the the there's that double edged yeah go on sorry yeah so I was saying it's the it's sorry go go go the but yeah the we're we're the the the the the we the wheel is uh is is has gone round now to a to a different man we're all like that's not fair now but I I was uh I someone did sort of say like how do you feel about uh you know minorities getting more of the work and I'm like oh big big scheme big picture ecstatic I'm so much happier that they're getting them very personal I'm furious because it's like I how comes how comes as soon as I want to get in the game they don't want to give money to people like me I was told I could have it all but it's like but in reality it's like oh no no like I'd much rather everyone else got a fucking chance then like it's just unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:17

I think it's just it just obviously could be and yeah right sorry it has to kind of swing swing uh hard the other way to kind of to to to then kind of be then meet in the middle where everyone's just like you know if people not not you know like yeah the the the middle class white dudes are getting all the all the all of the work and all of the chances because I mean that yeah that doesn't that doesn't do any anyone any favours frankly no we're we're we're polar opposites never work yeah yeah lovely grey area where everyone gets a taste like a dirty socialist I am when everyone gets a a piece yeah everything works better that that that's that's that's that's the dream I think as I say whether whether whether we ever get there without having to swing back and forwards and because you know by human nature everyone's everyone when it's not working in their favour is very it's not fair but um you know that that such is life it's like you know that that that's always a thing is is you you should never you've got no guarantees in life and you know whet whether you whether you have to work for it or what harder or less whatever it's you know just just work and be grateful for what you get.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:16

Just be be just thank you can have another you'll get nothing and you'll like it is that yeah I mean so well expect expect nothing and and just work work and you know and and like yeah it's it's uh yeah that it never sounds good on a on a on like uh you know a bumper sticker or anything does it but uh but yeah but like head head down work hard and hopefully you know like some something will happen. Some some uh I did a talk at a school recently about uh filmmaking and um some kids kind of were like what what what what like bit of advice would you give us and I was just like who can wait the longest yeah that's it who can wait the longest yeah if you can wait longer than the next guy you'll probably get it yeah if if say if if you're just like br like brut brutally stubborn just like I am gonna just keep sorting just yeah that that that's it and then you know and then if if you know say like just give give yourself what I mean let learn and and uh don't keep doing the same thing right over and over again. It's it's uh it I again it also all sound sounds simple and you know those kind of talks you get everyone's like oh yeah great and then but then even even like a year later you come out and they're doing exactly what you said not to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:29

And like I've had to change my sort of like uh metrics of success for me as a filmmaker. My goal was always get a film in the cinema. That's not a that's not a thing I can achieve anymore. And if it is I've achieved so much more to get to that point.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:45

It's so hard yeah so it's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:47

So now it's just like oh just make a feature or me or just make one. You might make a second but just try and make one. It doesn't matter where it goes as long as it gets gets somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:58

Yeah well I mean my hard drive even even even again yeah again like that this is just yeah again and not judging it's like by anyone else's stack like you know just yeah I mean getting a feature done in this day and age is a is a is a you know an incredible feat uh in like because it is so hard on so many ways never something that you can sit there and be oh I'm proud of that. But without obviously you're you're always going to be I'm sure as a director you're always gonna be the most hypercritical of your own work but uh and you'll see all the all the kind of things that you hate about it. But like if you can if you can sit back and go I've I've done alright here.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:32

Yeah I think that's that's how you should be like as a whole yes I'm pleased with this. I I rewatched uh Real Terror for the first time I haven't watched it for a while actually but uh last I think it might have been like last October I watched it the last time I watched it and I hadn't seen it for maybe a couple of months at that point. And I was watching it in a room full of people and I was it was at a screening and I was watching and I was looking at a certain scene and I just lent over to my mate and I went that scene doesn't work like that and it's just a flash it's just a flash of something and I was like that doesn't work and he he was like Yeah and I was like did you always know that and he went no and I was like it it did work before and he was like how many times have you seen this on the big screen I was like I've seen this on an IMAX like I know that it has worked but the more I watched it and the way I've changed I've gone like no I would cut that out and re-release it and I wonder if it would do better. And it's just this weird thing like every time I watch it I'm just like ah I'm better than I was when I made this. But then I wouldn't have done it like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:37

Yeah but then that that that's the thing as well is I mean like I'm saying uh um like yeah uh earlier so even things that you what you say that you like I I like I heard I've heard someone say things or like what are you uh and then you're like that's what what you you you're saying something is absolutely ludicrous and you're like oh I I know I said that like 15 years ago or 10 years ago or five years ago. And I mean yeah that's the thing with with with with uh uh with with with yeah that you obviously you could create creative uh um tastes and choices will be different because obviously yeah you're going and that that's kind of the only yeah the way that you can you can the well the only the really the way that you can benchmark it is kind of looking at your your past work and going, I'll do that differently now.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

Yeah but I still like I think there's my three shorts I made at uni like they the the the first one I made at uni uh the lecturer said this is the kind of work you should be achieving for your third year everyone and I was like that's good to know and now and then the film I made in my third year they now use to entice people onto their film programme. So I was really pleased about that. Yeah so there's those those things where I'm like oh that's a practical that's a practical way that my film did work. It's now being used to try and get people in. I love it. Um so Yeah it's like there's I would change so Many things if I was to make it today, but I'm still pleased with those films. I think they still work. But um who knows? Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:09

Well, that's a job. But yeah, I think yeah, if if if if if you if you can look back and say like yeah, I'm that there's uh I like I don't I A you can stomach watching them and they like you don't you don't eat every second of it uh like nails on a drawboard, then I think that's a that's a good that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:22

Like yeah, yeah, it's a good thing. Um what well I mean we've kind of we've skirted with some controversial uh opinions, but uh what's your controversial opinion on a famous film?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:37

I like I don't know whether I have I have I have like many like what I'd say like that I can I can think of off the top of my head. What what the one the one that I like I've had probably had the most because I'm not like I I I I'm I'm an I'm a like a I'm an avid avid fan of uh uh Timothy Dalton's James Bond. Like I think he's he's my he's my favourite Bond. Jones the Bond. Jones the Bond.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:06

Double O Seven. Stop getting Bond wrong. Yes. License to kick classic, classic Jurassic Park. Um back of the net um and uh I'm just thinking of Alan Alan Potch.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:28

Yeah, um yeah, because and then Sean Connery was my second, but then also I'm I'm not a fan of of the um uh Daniel Craig ones, right? In terms of because I okay because I I just think it but I love the Bourne trilogy and then but ultimately it's basically what happened. They looked at the Bourne trilogy and then and then um that's how we should do Bond. Yeah, and so then then that's what they did, and uh pretty pretty much like like you know, just uh well not beat for beat, but like you know, they were it was pretty kind of uh you know yeah ludicrously on on the on the note. So I was like, yeah, so I I I I kind of pour scorn on uh on on Daniel Craig as as as Bond and and and the Daniel Craig Bond films, and obviously he's got lots of fans. I mean he he's he's not terrible in it, but I feel like they're like they're like everyone a lot of people say oh he's so so he's so new and so different to kind of the others. I was like, well no, Timothy Dalton was like he was a bit more he was yeah, Dalton's the most non-bond. Yeah, but I mean he had he had the the swagger and the kind of the uh the thing I like the the generic bondness as well, but like he had he had the kind of like he was a bit more um you know like uh like terse and kind of like uh like hard as well, like whereas the others were just a bit you know a bit so I I I think I think it was more Dan Daniel Daniel Craig's way he played it was was you know that was was seen as like so different. I was like, well, only only one bond ago. Yeah when uh you know the the the the Living Daylight was uh was a and and and license skilled let me do it's probably better, but um yeah, they're they're two of my favourites as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:08

So interesting. I think with uh Daniel Craig's Bond, like there's only two good ones. Yeah, but I mean you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:18

To be fair, they did five, yeah. I mean they're they're I mean I mean like uh Spec No Skyfall was the best one, yeah, and Casino Royale. Yeah, yeah, and I mean the others were terrible, like all of the Yeah, and genuinely terrible. Like the the la the last one, I was just like, I mean, I've watched it, but I was just uh this I I hate everything about it, and the fact that you know who's gonna die and everything is like and then try and make it all kind of emotional. It's just like I'll absolutely do it on. I was I was I would have I would have I would have kind of uh uh exploded him on on on the spot or so like about half an hour as soon as they would just milk it out for so for so long as well. So I don't don't care about this.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:55

No, I I agree with you and like I don't dislike Pierce Brosnan.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:04

I mean he again he had his film like Goldeneye, great, loved it. Um wonderful rest of them, yeah, like just they got they just got more and more outrageous there.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:14

Yeah, I think I don't mind World's Not Enough, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:17

I mean that that was no I no uh wasn't no tomorrow never dies, I quite like with the with the kind of because that was like that that was um uh um what's his name? Uh Jonathan Price. Jonathan Price, who's a great bad guy, and just the fact that it was like it was like that felt kind of like a more interesting kind of thing of you than nuclear war and everything is just like this this kind of like this newspaper mogul, uh you know, this kind of news mogul, kind of uh who the fuck uh manipulating the world and everything. Weird. Yeah. Um so I I I did I did like that one and world is not enough, but yeah, it was alright.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:49

Um I like Robert Carlisle in it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:53

But that's the thing, I'm not a Bond guy. Like I I actually quite I struggle quite hard to watch any of them. Like I I love the set design of the early ones, obviously, like the Ken Adams stuff is like it's beautiful. Um I love purely from a uh filmmaking perspective, films from the 60s and early 70s, you know, Robert Shaw in from Russia of Love is excellent. Like there's there's elements of all of them which I'm like, oh yeah, I quite like that. But I'm just not a Bond like guy. And even to the point where, to quote like the idols, like I don't care about the next James Bond, like he feels for Queen and Country, whatever. It's like we don't need another murderous tough. And it's like, yeah, kind of. Like I don't I don't know if uh that character has ever represented like not me, obviously, but that that hero uh element for me has never been in that kind of guy. So to me it's like uh I don't know. But I think for years I always thought the Timothy Daunton ones would be the ones that I would enjoy. And then I watched them recently and I thought they were dog shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:09

They escape down a uh a mountain on a cello case. That's I mean, that's what's not so like a take it all back, take it all back. Yeah, come on. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:17

If it's good enough for indie.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:18

Yeah, well I mean I mean I I I do I do get it. I mean, I don't I just I mean to be honest, I like I think they should just I mean I know well that they're clearly not going to, they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna kind of like make it for the neat for the for the next generation, but just like hit the character and everything about it just does not fit. Like it's very it's hideously 50s or 40s or 50s and 60s. It's like there's no that you know, like it he's he's a kind of like a a womanizing kind of like uh you know like uh uh kind of arrogant like wan wanker doesn't respect kind of yeah, and you know the like the just uh there's there's no there's no the anything about that character, like I just I just think it's but by by design um just is isn't isn't a great one in in modern society, but then trying to make it like just do something else, like for fuck's sake, like just do something else, it's not gonna kill you. Yeah, like it just that that IP just should just should just be retired. Like I I mean I just I just I I thought that even you before Casino Royale, like um, you know, like it just it you mean yeah they're different and they've got they they have modernized it, but like now in in in the modern day, just the way the what and what it is at its at its kind of um its core is still the same and it's just not a good core to have.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:30

So I just I just think it's the fact that like Amazon now owns it as well, like that that really worries the sort of like I does Bezzo not realize that he would be a villain in probably not.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:46

No, I mean he's probably he probably wants to be James Bond, he's living out his kind of like uh his his teenage dream kind of thing. Um I'm sure he's gonna like doing all of his teenage dreams. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:56

Wearing a cowboy hat.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:57

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:58

Robert Rodriguez is the only person who can pull that off.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and and the guys in Yellowstone, obviously, like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:05

Obviously, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:08

Um and me, obviously, if I learn to ride a horse and could go around uh uh yeah, then then I'd obviously be able to as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:15

But my lady But yeah, like I uh I just cause they're they're gonna do like are they gonna do like money penny spin-off? Like because they're gonna do TV shows, they're gonna do films, they're gonna be double-O up the wazoos. I think what like my thought was um what they should have done is what they should have done, this guy um was like they should have just introduced like a Bond film and Bond was dead. That was it. Let everyone think that Daniel Craig was going to do another. It starts off Bond's dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:56

And uh just go he just has like a heart attack from like bad cholesterol or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:00

Like he just is like Exactly, from all the whiskey he's drinking down. Like and they just say 007 is dead, like it's now your turn, 008. You know what I mean? And then they just go like, right, that's it. Anything that happened is now 007's little reputation hasn't been tarnished, and you can do whatever you like. And 008 could be, heaven forbid, a person of colour or another type of person. And it's just like and we could see how it could work.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:30

But I I but then I just think I just think for that, then if you you know you just you you're you're always gonna be under the weight of of of like the you know competitive because it always James Bond, you know. Well, I mean if you could call it James Bond universe, like you know it's kind of like it's it's it it's in that that fellow. Just just do just do something like you know new and interesting and uh and you know that you then you don't have to kind of like facilitate this because like I don't I I think it's more because obviously that they'll try and milk uh like it as as an IP even if it isn't James Bond, but then like you I think I think you get crushed under the weight of that more than you would like buy like get an audience to buy in, like buy into it more. If you if you didn't make it a thing of being like, well, you know, it it's like it's James Bond, but now it's it's it's um you know um a person of colour or it's it's uh it's a girl or whatever, and obviously these things have come up, and there's all these kind of like crazy um you know, like keyboard warriors talking about stuff uh like like like that and you're thinking, Jesus, like it just just yeah, I think it'd just just be better to just do something entirely new uh and then and let it die in a cupboard somewhere, frankly.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:35

If you if you were to let it be something new as well, you don't need the same kind of budget as a Bond film. You can cut it smaller, you can make it. And what I what what I want, what anyone would want if they were making a new Bond film, because they said it when Bourne came out, they were like, Oh, it's like a fancier James Bond. And it's like right, there you go. So if they made a new James Bond, they'd be like, Oh, this is like a new James Bond, and it's like right, so that's gonna have some cachet, that's gonna build its own reputation, just stick with that, and yeah, let it die. Just let it die. But then people can't let it die.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:11

No, well a bit of though is I it's IP, so you m heaven forbid anyone uh like not milk it to kind of like within an inch of its life. And and and to be fair, the trouble is I mean, we'll see whether this next round what happens, but like people still you know, like so I'm not I don't know, not all of Daniel Craig's ones like like made shit tons of money, but they all made like they all made a good like good chunks of money. So people still go and watch them, they're still like you know Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:37

But they're big in China for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:39

Yeah, I mean it was just I mean obviously it's just it's just a uh kind of uh uh um ex eccentric brit Britishness, uh I guess it has that charm for for kind of like you know the international market, I think.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:50

And it's just that recognized which is why they they couldn't have been a uh person of colour bond.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:55

Yeah, right, yeah, they would yeah they would they wouldn't curry in uh um in in um yeah places like China because they'll be like is this? I mean that to be fair, there'd be I'm sure plenty of uh um of idiots in the in the in the UK that would be up in arms if that if that happened as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:08

Oh my god. Like the amount of people I know that kick off about IPs that they have no skin in the game for, other being other than being a fan. Yeah like I I just I as I've mentioned, Jaws, one of my favourite films. I've never seen two, three, or four. I don't need to. I have the perfect Jaws film. Yeah, I don't need I don't need any more. So when people say, like, how do you feel about him roaring in the fourth, I'm like, I don't care. I've got one. I'll just watch Jaws. And if I don't want to watch Jaws, I'll won't. Like, I don't mind Deep Blue C. I didn't mind the Meg. Like it doesn't matter to me. I didn't write the fucker. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:48

I mean, so that I mean that like I yeah, I I can never never get too precious about even the ones that I'm like you know, like very, very geeky about. Like I still like you know, I I haven't got uh I as a rule, like I'm not not enchanted by remakes and and you know like sequels and sequels and prequels or whatever, but but you know, like I like as long, yeah, like you're right, as long as you've got the original and that's the one that you you like, you don't no one's making you watch the other ones.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:13

You have to have to I think that's the thing, no one's making you watch them, so just give it a go. Like the true grit remake by the Cohen Brothers, great fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:25

Yeah, yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:26

The three ten to humor.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:28

Yeah, great fun. Prefer the original again. I mean you know, sometimes like that you can you can do a remake and it is it is great.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:34

Um, you know, like there's loads of things out there that are technically remakes that are great fun, but you don't have to you don't have to consume every single thing that comes out from an IP. Like I I think that's the the thing that confuses me the most about uh you know obsessive fans and things is that it's uh so what? Like so what you watched it, you didn't like it, you don't have to go any further than that. That that's that that thought process, I don't like that. Yeah, is where it can die.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:07

Yeah, like I mean, I mean it feels it's it's something to get kind of uh uh like head up about and like like uh rip rods, they're kind of you know, people that have the same kind of uh you know uh loves as you and everything. So I kind of yeah, it's kind of a community thing, but like yeah, it just does like you the the the way some of it goes, and when it gets into the kind of the crazy stuff, like you know, he was like uh in in the book, he's left-handed, not right-handed, and uh you know, or like you know, uh just stuff stuff like that is uh you know, it you just kind of chill out. It's a it's a film, like you know, chill the fuck out. Enjoy it. If you're looking at that and that's that's inhibiting your to your uh your your um you enjoying a film, that's that's a that's that's sad.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:49

That that's ruined it for yourself. Yeah, I think I think what is it like as well what Argento said with Susperia, where he was like, Well, if you're gonna make a a film that isn't anything like the film I made, don't call it Susperia. And if you're gonna film a film that's a shot-for-shot remake of my film, don't. We already have Susperia. And it was like, yes, exactly. Like call it something else and change it, or just don't do it. I don't know. I don't care. Yeah, yeah. Clearly, I do care. It annoys me that it annoys me.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:26

I'm fine, everything's fine.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:31

But no, I'm fine. I'm fine. Um what uh what have you been watching recently then? Uh other than dailies and the same thing over and over and over.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:43

Yeah, yeah, a lot of that. Um I so I've been doing more series at the moment. Um I did I didn't go and see it, but say um I went and saw um The Mandalorian, uh, the new and Grogu the other day on on uh the cinema, which is Do you have fun? Uh yeah, if you like The Mandalorian, it's basically a long episode of The Mandalorian. It's like it's not lovely. Yeah, it's not nothing nothing kind of groundbreaking, but it's yeah, it's uh I I I love it. They can't all be Rogue One, yeah, yeah. Rogue One is is always gonna be uh the chef's kiss. Um but um and then yeah, I think so. So I've been watching um uh for for um uh is it friends and neighbours?

SPEAKER_02 2:06:29

Uh the oh I haven't seen it, but the John Hamm one, yeah, I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:32

Good. So yeah, I'd like the season one's incredible. I'm on season two at the moment. Um so I was so was waiting for season two to come out, and season two's like not as like the the concept on what it was all about the first season I I really liked, and I think it's just gone more into the characters now as opposed to kind of like the the concept, which I guess inevitable if you're gonna do a proper like your ongoing series, but uh yeah, so it didn't look like that uh as much in um and shrinking as well because the new the new series of that's come out recently, which is yeah, Harrison Ford's uh uh yeah, and I just that's just fucking and it's Bill Lawrence who did Scrub. I always love Scrubs, so uh yeah, like that that's kind of a similar thing thing to Scrubs, is like you can you can laugh and cry in like in the space of like half an hour, yeah. He's a magician, so um that's definitely uh incredible. Um and I've just finished um obviously on clearly on an Apple thing at the moment because uh yeah, they're on Apple, and then uh I think they do the best, they do the best stuff. Yeah, I like I just I just I mean just the I mean they don't have a lot, but what they do have is all excellent. Yeah, um yeah, and silo. I love silo yeah, severance severance severance obviously is fantastic. Um and then there I want to watch the um uh Cape Fear that's just come out with um oh yeah. Good. I I'm not I'm not seeing it yet. I'm I'm I'm waiting until I've I've just let it be done and then yeah, yeah. I I try and do I don't I try not to binge watch, I try and do an episode per night just so it's like you know, because it because just so you I I feel like especially you you you appreciate the beats a bit more in the kind of like you know episode to episode and not if you just watch it all in one, then you don't really get the arcs in the same way, and it just kind of all blurs into kind of like lose a lot of the fun nuance that the filmmakers put into it. And it's just it's nice to look forward to like the next episode of it as well. Because I again it's like when when you when you used to watch 24 on a Sunday night, and uh you've got oh I can't wait for another week now to to to uh get to the next one.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:32

And it's even I was the same with martial law, the Samo Hung TV show.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:36

Oh well, that's uh I think I I I haven't never watched an episode of that.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:40

I I I channel channel five, obviously channel five, and uh it was rush hour the TV show essentially. Well, that's uh say no more.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:48

I'm I'm in. I'm in.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:49

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:51

Um and if Foundation was the other one that I've just just finished. So that's so I I like um yeah, sci-fi nerd. So uh um yeah, that that was um that was fantastic, and uh obviously they're doing doing a new series of that now. So I mean that's it's a hard one to get into, but once you're into it, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:07

Well, I wanted to read the Asimov books, I wanted to do all that first, and then I read one Asimov book and I couldn't do it. I was just too much like, oh, this is this is deep sci-fi. Like I love sci-fi, but I was like, this is too much. Yeah, um, but I will watch the show because I love sci-fi.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:29

Well, it it's it's great. I mean, it's uh it's one of those ones because like uh I mean I I like I read I read Game of Thrones before I watched, and I I hated the first like five or six seasons uh of of Game of Thrones because I was like, well, this is this is sorry. I was again it was just like there's so much more. I mean, obviously there's always gonna be more dense like density in the book, but there's just so much that was like it was so much but like better in all the ways, and then uh yeah, and then now I've gone back and watched Game of Thrones since and I'm not actually it's it's incredible. Um now I love it. Um but um but yeah, like uh uh and and because I think the foundation the series differs so much that like the whole there's entirely new characters. Uh oh nice. Uh so like it is just it's just like it uh it there are there are kind of beats that are are in in the book, but a lot of it is kind of you know it it's it's using that as kind of like a I guess a blueprint and then building off of that, but yeah, it's it's significantly different, I think.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:25

Apparently. It's like my buddy's my buddy's show Walking Dead. It was uh he did the artwork for the comic. So amazing. So like now, yeah, I asked him about it and he's like, I ain't got a fucking clue where this show is going. Because it's just deep it's like it deviated from the first series and it's just gone its own way. And it was like, Oh, that's quite nice. He was like, Yeah, I watched the first four series. And it's like, there's you know, it was about ten or eleven. He was like, I wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:49

Yeah. Yeah, I I I watched that till they started getting really I mean the the the the sound started getting really annoying. I was like, I can't deal with this anymore.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:59

I I uh when Charlie went off to shoot it, uh, because he he was in the first episode as an extra and he was there for like the first day of like the first whatever. Frank Darabon was the director on the first one, so we met Frank Darabon, which is pretty cool. But um when he got back, like obviously months had passed, whatever, and then he was like, Here's the first six episodes. It was like a uh screen edition and he lent it to a few of us and we watched it. And uh I think I watched the first three episodes and I was like not for me. I'm I'm all right. That's it. Uh like and I I don't know, I I I would say that's probably why me and Charlie are mates, is because I couldn't give a flying fuck about the walking dead.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:42

But yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's I would say it's it's uh yeah, but but that's that's that's things uh um there like even where when you when when you when you like people like uh that I mean there's all those ones that are in the zeitgeist for ones that are like really popular now, don't like I'm alright.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:59

I was the same with With uh Game of Thrones. I think I watched every series reluctantly. Like my housemates when the first three series came out, we watched, and I was like, I just got home from work, lads, I don't care what you do. I would go to work. It was four of us. Three of them were uh on the odd job seekers. And I would go to work, they would be up from the night before playing Skyrim, chain smoking cigarettes and playing Skyrim. I would go, I'd come home from doing a full day of work, uh, they would still be playing Skyrim and they would only stop to put in the next episode of Game of Thrones. And for the first three series, I watched it all just because I'd get home from work shattered and be like, What is going on, boys? We can't all live like this. Why am I the only one working? And then and then, like, uh girlfriend at the time, like uh I moved out of that house until with her, and then we watched like I think for the next four seasons, and then the last two seasons, like uh my current partner, because you never know. Uh refer to cover like 10 years. Uh she uh I think she watched like the last two series, and I was just like, I don't care. I don't care, and I've had to watch all of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:21

Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, and I like that again that that's one of the funny ones that everyone gets up upset about the ending of that. So how how do you think it's gonna end? Like, you know, that like I I thought the end I thought the ending was very good actually, very quite quite ap apt and realistic in in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:36

Um we redid Lost um a couple of years ago, and I loved the ending.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:42

I mean it's true, like you like people. I mean, obviously, when you put invested a lot of time, you want you want like an ending that's gonna kind of satisfy you, but when you've when you've put so many hours into something that's like there's no ending that's gonna be and assuming it's something lost, like lost, I had no fucking clue where it was going from one series to another. So like you know, they're just like, Well, we have to end it somehow now, and I'm not quite sure about how what like the what are up and down ending or and everyone seems to think it's purgatory, so let's just say it was purgatory. Yeah, yeah, it's just kind of go that way because that seems like a good way to go. Like, but I enjoyed it, yeah. Yeah, so I mean I I mean I I think uh I mean it's it's always uh it's always funny with when those big series ended, like everyone, everyone's up in arms, like there's always no one's happy. And like again, I've I've I've I've very much argued for get Game of Thrones. I think it's is a is a very good ending. Like I think it's very real, like all of the characters do the things that they think the characters would do. Uh and yeah, like the Daenerys is gonna be she's she's uh she's she's gonna be a uh kind of uh yeah um curve ball, however, however, so probably for the best of everybody if she just yeah pops her clogs.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:44

And that's the thing, like it's so do you is it because you don't agree with the story or you just liked the character? You know, it's like yeah, if you just like the character and you don't like that they died, then then you don't understand how storytelling works.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:58

Like that's the whole thing I did like about Game of Friends, like they're like, Yeah, because it's like I know no one's safe, it's like there's no justice and all, but that's no that's real life. That's like that's how it is. Like, you know, you don't if you if you're if you're kind of like the the nice guy and just and smart and you know, or like you've you've you've worked your white whole life being you know being being a good good at it doesn't mean that someone's just not gonna go stick a knife in your stomach, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:21

Um like it was always the thing, like if you liked if you liked anyone from that that show went, like Carl Drogo.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:31

If you liked him for raping Amelia Clark, boom, dead.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:36

Got got it got it got it got a deser, yeah. And and say like it's just like no no, but I I like that. I think that's uh I think that's the thing that the kind of thing I think uh storytelling's kind of come on a little bit now is like the the there is that thing of like the hero, the hero doesn't always survive because that's not that's not that that's not always the you know that's not reality, like you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:54

I have always wanted to do a film where like the hero dies about three quarters of the way through.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:00

And then everyone else just has to pick up the slack.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:02

Yeah, yeah. But I mean I bet that's that's trouble like you but then you you'd uh uh the trouble because I I'm the same, I was like, oh, I love the ones. I mean, obviously glad it I loved because I was like, you know, he he dies at the end, but obviously they they could rock it out because he w he goes back to his family, so it's fine, it's great. Like it's uh it's really a happy ending. Um uh but um but uh yeah I can I can I can see like the the the the sales and and uh things now if you murder your your lead in in the like third act, yeah, or beginning of the third act, they're like yeah, we like it, but uh but no, we can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:34

What if what if you give them a peppy sidekick who is uh from day one, kill them?

SPEAKER_01 2:16:42

Yeah just kill them. Trouble is because it goes back to the kind of tracking, like you, if the if the if you go, if you like you put it on in front of an audience and then you ask them questions about it afterwards, which is like still kind of like how the bigger films are they're like, Well, oh yeah, like how how do you feel about the film? They're like, Yeah, I liked it. What didn't you like about the film? Well, then like I felt bad when the guy died, like and I didn't didn't like that. So they so they go back with like everyone uh like said, Oh yeah, well, no one everyone didn't like it that the the the main person died. I was like, Well, that's a good thing. Yeah, they felt something, yeah. That's what films should have done. That's like we're like uh you know, you can you could you like they're like okay, well, can we just kind of put another scene in where he just actually just gets up and realizes the like you know the bullet go watch some Italian real neo-realism and realise that the audience is not owed an ending, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:32

Well exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:37

Yeah, yeah, and and and you're welcome. Yeah, there's uh it's a trouble like you again, it's like uh audience with opinions. I mean, that they they they they think they know what they want, but they don't know what they want.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:48

Uh no, no, no. They they want to be entertained, yeah, and they're afraid to feel an emotion other than joy. So they only want joy. And I understand it, life is miserable. Um but uh I think as long as you didn't feel boredom, you felt something, I don't care what you felt, that's that's good. Amen. Amen. Amen to that. But I'm I'm just a silly arty creative, so what would I know?

SPEAKER_00 2:18:14

Yeah, yeah, well, was anyone knowing?

SPEAKER_02 2:18:17

It was anyone though. Well, thank you very much for coming on. Um you've named some good stuff, and I'm definitely gonna put Quest. The Quest. Okay, the Quest. I'm gonna put the Quest on uh my letterbox watch list. So uh that better be good.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:32

Yeah, that let me know how you're going with that. I think it's uh an absolute peach of a film.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:37

If you never hear this episode get aired, it's because the film was shit.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:41

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:42

Well, I'll look forward to this never being exactly you'll never hear the Ridley Scott episode. Yeah. That's what I should do. I should just say that there's so many in the bank, mate. I've got one with Prince. Yeah, yeah. Never to be aired. Never to be aired. It's in the vault. It's in the vault.

SPEAKER_03 2:19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:01

Um, but yes, thank you for coming on. Uh there's been some good stuff. Uh I've it's also nice to meet a fellow creative who thinks the same way.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:10

Yeah, no, likewise, man. It's a pleasure. It's been nice to nice having a chat about uh yeah, about about cool movies and that growing up in the 90s. It's the best.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:19

It was the best.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:20

We had it the best. I have no comparisons, but I'm sure it was.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:25

I think it was. Because we had we had just enough, you know what I mean? We had some internet, but not all the internet.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:32

Yeah, yeah. We had well, we had we had outside and trees and and you know, exactly come home at dinner time. Like, yeah, it was it was crap.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:39

I mean, I've started gardening because I'm at that age. Uh so I'm starting to feel it now. I'm starting to get back into the soil.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:47

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:48

I'll I'll I'll I'll hope hopefully that probably won't be me anytime soon, but uh oh, I thought that until all of a sudden someone said grow some radishes, and then I was like, Oh, I'll grow some radishes, and I was like, I'm into this.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:01

I like the idea of seeing things grow. I haven't got a garden, so that that's uh maybe that was that would change when I've got a garden.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:08

There you go. Wait for another pandemic and then leave to the country. Yeah. E-country bumpkin.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:14

And then and then uh yeah, then then I'll be uh yeah, we'll do one in like three years, and I'll be like, oh, I've I grow all my like uh produce now.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:22

And I'll have gone all the way the other way, and I'll be like, I've got cybernetic in implants now. I'm I'm all city.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:27

Yeah. You are you are AI, just uh I am AI, me and Elon Musk.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:34

We both got our brain implants and both doing weird twitches, not because of ketamine, because of our brain implants. And that's that. Have you ever thought uh here's a quick one. Last question. Uh this isn't one of the set questions, so I'm asking off the top of my dome, everyone. He makes so much money. Do you think wait, no, not do you think? If you asked him out of everyone's eyes and say, look, I'll sign a contract that says I can't tell anyone that this is where the money came from, give me ten million, I'm gonna make three films. Would you take the money from him knowing that it's from him? And you can't like like divert the money, you can't make three films for like one and a half million and give the rest a charity. You have to make like he wants to see a logbook of like, no, no, you've made three films. There it is.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:31

I yes, I would. I'd but I'd I do I'd I'd make something that has some kind of um it has like a c like a some like it has a message at his core that's that for the for the you know for the for the good of yeah, it's it's it's it's some saying something about humanity and and like something something about culture or highlighting something that's wrong with culture, like something like I I I love the genre genre films like um I'm all genre films, but then like his house, for example, like it's uh it's not it's not a uh a preachy look at um um uh asylum seekers, but it's like it has like it has this like really harrowing uh like horror film, but also with this harrowing kind of like backdrop of what the realities of of life are like for for some um some people and and just like so so I I do something that has like a social impact. So try and say something if it was just like just my money and go and do something that I wanted to do, I'd yeah, I'd I'd I'd do something like that. So I'd make uh like it would be it would be uh something that I could say what I've you know the my the money's come from someone someone that's not great um from questionable sources, but I do I'd like to try and do something do something good with that, yeah, in in in the vein that I could, and that I mean that's that's a dream of ultimately what I want to do with films anyway. So that yeah, if the if the if the I I I I think for me anyway, my my own morals, I could I could square that away with myself and not feel too too icky.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:05

Um that's that's a fair I'm pleased that you answer that, honestly. Because I've I've thought about this for quite a while, and I thought like I don't know if I could. And then it's like, well, if no one knows, do I feel like if I could take the money if I thought no one knew? What if he wants to have like creative input? And it's like, well, if he wants creative input, it's a no.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:26

If he wants his name on the credits, I think it would be a no. But if it was a angel investor situation, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:37

Yeah, but I mean yeah, I I mean I I I I think you know, if it if it was if it was yeah, if if if if there was any any more terms than just like here's the money going, you have to make the films, but other than that, there's no kind of uh other other other things than then I yeah, I I yeah, but if it was like any kind of correct absolutely not creative control, and yeah, I I don't think I would um because then even even if you are doing uh like a film, like I say what I'm talking about, like so you kind of you're you're you're you're you're trying to try and do something for good. The fact that his name's on it's then kind of just you know, he's he's he he's like that that then feels like he's doing something for his image and then it's kind of pre-tarnished the whole project. Yeah, so so yeah. Um but yeah, so so there would only be only be that one way that I'd be I'd be like, yes, I'd take the money, but you you you you're no longer no part of it. And um yeah, otherwise that yeah, I don't think I'd go there, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:33

And uh one last question. If you had to have a gun, would you have uh a boot holster, a hip holster, or a shoulder?

SPEAKER_01 2:24:41

I too was too many western, so I'd I'd have to I'd have to have a uh a shoulder. Yeah, sorry, no shoulder, yeah, hip hip.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:48

Yeah. Sling it right off the hip. Yeah, yeah. You know. Or like sex machines from from Dust or Dawn.

unknown 2:24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:54

Just the penis one. Yeah, the yeah, that I mean that's uh like uh I mean I'm sure if if if if that was a choice in the table, I'm sure everyone would have that one.

SPEAKER_02 2:25:01

I mean that's that would be my secondary carry all the time.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:06

All times, but then I mean I'm I'll be I'll be worried about like a mishap somehow. I'm sure that I I'd do I mean as soon as I had a lot of flipper, I'd probably end up severing off my own arm or like forget it and trying to try and get like some ham out my teeth or something would be like oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:25:20

Just trying to like get it just right trying to show you what could go wrong. Nothing. It'd be perfectly fine. Well, thank you very much for coming on, it's been wonderful. Uh my pleasure, dude. Appreciate you.