James Cleave - Writer-Director

Joining me this week, James Cleave

James is a London-based Writer-Director and Associate Member of Directors UK, whose work explores human connection through realistic, dialogue-driven drama, often with a sharp thread of humour running through the discomfort. His short films have collectively earned 21 awards, 30 nominations, and 31 Official Selections across national and international film festivals. His debut sci-fi drama Sometime Else, which screened at the BAFTA Cymru-qualifying Carmarthen Bay Film Festival, was described by UK Film Review as sitting "amongst any of Charlie Brooker's best and darkest [Black Mirror] episodes." His BIFA-Qualified comedy-drama MAFIA was praised by Film Carnage for its "clean edge" and "intimate and focused" directorial style. His latest BIFA-Qualified comedy SELF+TAPE, is currently on its festival run following its premiere at BIFA-qualifying Unrestricted View Film Festival.

A third-culture kid born in the UK and raised in Limassol, Cyprus, James has over 15 years of industry experience across 86 productions within the AD department, including serving as Kenneth Branagh's on-set Director's Assistant on A Haunting In Venice and on-set Cast Assistant on A Thomas Crown Affair, with further credits on Cinderella, RED 2, Black Mirror, and the BAFTA-winning Pride, to name a few. Outside of his AD career, he has produced close to 100 non-broadcast productions, managing end-to-end delivery across animation, post-production, and multi-language packages, writing and directing a number of them, earning 24 international awards including the WorldMediaFestival's intermedia-globe Grand Award. He is currently developing his first feature film.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Your Life and Film. I'm your host, Ted Bennett. Joining me this week, James Cleave. James is a writer-director whose work explores human connection through realistic, dialogue-driven drama, often with a sharp thread of humour running through the discomfort. James has a series of short films, all of which have been very well received. His debut sci-fi drama, Sometime Else, was screened at the Bafta Cymru qualifying Kmarthan Bay Film Festival. It's a good one, I like it, I'll put the trailer down there. His second short film, Mafia, was also received very well. That was Biffa qualified, and his most latest Biffa qualified comedy, Selftape, is currently on its festival run following its premiere at Unrestricted View Film Festival. We start the conversation with me asking James how he got into the industry. So that's what we're talking about. I'll leave it to him. Enjoy. I I love how Pride was your like, oh, I was doing this job and I was trying to get this job, but luckily I had Pride to fall back on, which is a beautiful film anyway. You know what I mean? So it's like Imagine if like even if you just had Pride, it'd be like, I got to work on Pride.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yeah, Pride was a special film. It was uh I was like one of a handful of uh floor runners. There weren't many of us on that job. Um I think there were two or three of us actually, and considering we had about 13 main casts every day, and you know, well-established names now, as you as you as you well know. And it was primarily a location job across Wales, across central London. We had lots of big you know crowd days. It was just it was just you know really, really busy every single day, and it was it was a challenging job in in a number of respects, but it's one I look back at very fondly, and I'm so glad that it has not only found an audience for the team involved, but also it propelled some careers, um, and and and it's become sort of one of those nostalgic or trying to think of the right word, it's just become one of those cult films now, especially within that community as well. So no, I'm very proud to have worked on it and um I learned a lot about life on it as well, because you learn a lot about life with film and especially with a film like Pride, you know, and in a community you're not necessarily connected to specifically, but you do learn a lot. Um that's why I love film, you know. You you're catapulted into scenarios you haven't been uh exposed to, and and that was one of those uh in in a way, obviously having lots of friends uh before and since has sort of opened up that experience even further. But um yeah, and I'm just so glad how well it turned out. Um but I was I was very exhausted by the end of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

I can imagine. I can imagine actually, because like when I watched that film when it first came out, like I was struck by the the energy, especially in like the um well, that sort of duality of like the bookshop energies and then the old like gentlemen's club sort of um the the social club kind of places where everyone's sat and all the energies in there. Like they're both very high energy areas that when you're making a film like that, you can really fluff it and not get those energies right, but they always are the right level of sort of like uh fizz in the room, if that makes sense. So I can imagine like shooting it, like trying to get everyone to sort of get to there and then stay there. I can imagine it's a lot, but good, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, I mean it's the team are amazing. I mean from 80s from directors, you know, and w writers, every everyone involved um just brought a level of energy to that to that film all the way through. And because we're filming on location as well at Gaze of Word Bookshop and in one of the you know, one of the many sort of um pubs, not the right the social social pubs, also working working class um men's clubs. Yeah, working men's clubs. Working men's clubs, yeah. Yeah. But it was that was actually on location. So there were lots of you know, it was it was very authentic in that respect. And I think, you know, especially in where you know the Welsh mining town that we were filming in, so it it just was legitimate, and I think that probably helped aid that it wasn't just a backlog kind of job. So yeah, that's no, it was it was very, very good.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

So with your film career, did were you are you um are you a film school guy? Did you go NFTS, did you go like any of those places, or are you all self sort of self-taught?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah, uh, to an extent. So uh I went to Bournemouth University and the reason I went there was I studied the advertising and marketing course. I chose advertising because I didn't think a career in film was viable for someone like myself who isn't connected to the industry at all, and I always growing up in Cyprus as a little tiny little village community, I never imagined myself working on the big stage. I've I've watched films my whole life, I have what I'm a you know, big cinephile, I you know, watch thousands of films, and I just thought, well, advertising's like mini movies to me, and there's 30-second movies, maybe this is a way in to being in that uh maybe sort of a sidestep to that that lovely world. I'm I'm you know, I'm not in film, but I'm I'm making things. So I studied that and it sort of all came about when I was when I graduated, there was a company that I really wanted to work for. There's one specific advertising agency that did loads of creative work that I found fascinating, and I I sort of had received their some replacement, but I was with someone else, and part of our course you had to do a set period of time in order to graduate, and I had to turn them down, and they said, Oh, that's a shame they're turning us down. Well, that's weird. They never get turned down. And I said, Well, I I've already said yes to this, I'm I'm a man of my word, I'm afraid I've just said yes to this, but I uh is there a time you could maybe have me afterwards? And they went, it doesn't work like that, unfortunately. But if you apply to our um annual scheme uh on your graduation, uh we'd love to sort of continue the conversation. And I said, Brilliant, I'll let you know as soon as I've graduated. So I graduated graduated, applied, and then got rejected. So I was like, right, okay, well, I only want to work there, I don't really want to work anywhere else. I got quite sort of stuck in the mud about it, going, I'm I'm just gonna work here. So what can I do for a year? I I I can't go on the gap year, uh, can't really afford that. But my university was doing a you know a percentage off if you went back and did a master's, and I thought, what would I do a master's in if that would be useful? And the master's was in producing films, television. I thought, well, as I've always felt like I could direct myself in myself, what is a useful tool that can aid that process in in in in make you know if I go into an advertising room, okay, hi, um you know, I work in advertising, but I also can produce, I can direct, I can help out, I understand the process. So I ended up studying producing uh film television at Bournemouth University, which was a year-long course, and it was you know it was great. Uh it was a you know really really fun course, learnt a lot, really try to push every project as far as I could possibly go to to sort of learn from the experience. And but that was the extent of my film school because my real film school was as soon as I you know graduated and you know thousands of emails and calls and random cold calls to people, you know, eventually leading to my first job. The first job within three days, I think I learned more in those three days than the entire year at university. That was the film school was being on set and seeing what it was really like.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

100%. Uh during uni for me, I got a job as an EPK producer.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Um, yeah, so I worked on a couple of short films that were BFI funded. Uh one of which we had the same script supervisor as you on uh sometime else. Leftiris.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Oh right, Leftarius. Oh, he's wonderful. Oh, that's that's a small world, isn't it? Oh, he's great.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Bonkers. When I saw his name in the credits, I was just like, Oh! I instantly messaged him and I was like, I just saw your name in a film. So yeah. Yeah, he's great, very very talented guy. Oh my god, that dance video, the one that he's geez, that's good. That looks bloody good. Yeah, yeah. I uh well uh the last time I spoke to him was because I was watching Flux Gourmet and he had script supered that as well, the Strickland film. Oh wow, and I was yeah, I know, and I was like, I'm gonna have to message him now. So like the last two times I've messaged him has just been like, I've just seen your name again. So he's he's doing very well. Good, but um so I I yeah, I I had worked on those two films uh while at uni, so it was a summer I would just do a short with them, and it was very interesting. Everything that you're sort of told is all well and good, but when you see it in action and you see the realities of it and you see sort of like the time crunching, and especially when it's your job to document it, you really have to keep an eye on everyone. You're like, what is everyone doing? Because I've got to see what is the most engaging for an EPK, but also I have to sort of just like observe every single thing and be like, right, well, we've seen those guys set up that stuff, we don't need that every day. So if they're doing that, what are the other guys doing? What are these people doing? Who are they going? What are the producers up to? And it becomes a very interesting way to sort of get yourself around every single job, and then once you see all the jobs, you're like, God, there's so much here, and I've learnt so much in this two-week period that you know I always tell people if they want to get into film, I'm just like, try and shoot it behind the scenes for someone else. That's yeah, that's gonna be a great way.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

It or be a runner, uh, which is kind of my my way, and I think that's how you really learn what all the different roles are. I say I think we're gonna now set PAs, but when I was there it was floor runner or runner driver if you had a car, which I didn't at the time, so but yeah, it you you're completely right. It's it I think what my course was great for was uh producing things, you know, even at the amateur level, because it taught you resilience of how the realities of doing things like you know what you really have to do to make something, good or bad. And you can make loads of mistakes and it didn't really matter, and you know, you learn the paperwork. I think they're very good for paperwork, which you as a producer is vital. Yeah, it's a vital, vital skill. So I'd say they're on that side of things from production perspective, I think they had a very, very good understanding. But when you're on set, set is a very different thing. It's almost the prep leads to the set, and if all the prep's done well, then the set should go pretty smoothly. Everything always goes wrong. But you know, you as long as you know how to mitigate that and work with the ever-changing, you know, fiascos that happen on set, you just gotta learn to roll with it, and I think the more you do, the more you get used to it.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah. I think it's uh it it's a shame that the the runner role has become like it it's almost the hen's teeth role. It used to be that the job you could get was runner and that got you in. Now, like the amount of people who like I always go to colleges whenever I need a runner, because I'm like, I'd rather give it to someone who's got no experience because it seems that like very well trained people are just taking jobs as runners because there's hardly any jobs going, and then you're just sort of like, but that's not like I respect that you're gonna do a better job, but that job's not for you. Like that that job is specifically for like up and coming people, and I don't want to sort of take that away from them. So yeah, it's it's a it's a difficult role to get into now.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

It used to be the bread and butter role, but I think when I started, which was in 2010, was a real famine period as well. There weren't that many jobs. We would take anything from a 50 pound music video, 80 18 hour day, to you know, I think four you know, 400 pounds for six to eight weeks. You know, it was very, very un very low paid. And that was for TV, you know. It you just took what you could and you just kept and that and I think that's kind of my mentality was it was just yes to everything, just yes to everything. I just took it if I could fit you know, sort of fit it into my schedule. And I I think I took off maybe one or two weeks a year, you know, in January, which when everything used to slow down. Yeah. And I was very thankful because I I worked a lot and I learned a lot, and when I started out, there was a rule, an unwritten rule, that is not really so much a thing now. But essentially they were saying you should be a runner for three years plus, and then when this space becomes available, you become a third AD for three years, and then you become a second AD for five to ten if you really want to be a really good second, and then you can go up to firsting, and then after firsting, if you don't want to continue firsting, you can then produce. I do find that some of the most amazing producers I've worked with, on top of the natural talent of being a producer, have been ones that have been ADs as well, because they've understood the that side of things as well. I'm not saying that you have to be an AD to be a good producer, it's not true. But I just find that it's a different string to the bow when you've done both, because you have to manage so many people on set.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

I think whenever it comes to any um element of promotion in the ranks, like rising the ranks, I want someone who has mucked out the toilets and picked up all the cups, you know what I mean? I want someone who has done all of it, so that when they get to that level, they say to me, Go do it, and I know they've done it. They they've done it before, they've been where I am, that's that, and then I don't mind. It's a i I it's probably a stupid way of thinking. But it is always like, no, no, no, I know you've done it, and I know you're asking me to do it, I will happily do it. But when I know that someone hasn't done it, they've just come straight in as this. I am a bit like careful, like you've not you've not done it all, so you don't know, and I know that's you know, whatever, but there is always that feeling of like I've always got a bit more time for someone who's rate like rised in the ranks than someone who sidesteps straight in, and it's like I'm sure you have transferable skills elsewhere, and I'm sure you're very, very competent. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

And and I I think in the old days as well, and I see you keep saying the old days because it really is now, but the there was a ri there was a risk element to stepping up too quickly as well, and and there was risk and reward. The risk was you stepped up and then suddenly you're a you're a third AD or a second, and you would continue on that path, and you would do a great job, and then we're like, Yep, you're ready to step up and now's the time, or you step a bit too quickly and you fail catastrophically because you haven't been trained, because there aren't any training, but you just gotta learn by being on the job, and you fail, and then you're not hired as a third AD for a very long time, and and people remember that and they were like, No, no, we don't trust them to be a third AD, you know. It it it it's it was it was it was challenging like that. I'd say people do step up a bit quicker now, um and some of their biggest jobs are people's first jobs. You know, you're on Netflix for your first job as a PA sometimes now, which for us was unheard of. It was so I remember when I first started, someone said to me, You'll be lucky to get to Disney by the fifth year because there weren't many Disney jobs, there were there just weren't many, but it was five years was to get into that pool of people and that has changed because we are you know we have so many productions of that scale, you know, uh operating in the UK now compared to before.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

But the opportunity for more work is always a good thing, and it is a it is a worry that the the rising like too quickly and then not being hired again. It felt very much about 2014 era, there was about six of everyone and they were all getting the same jobs. It very much felt like there are only five or six camera assistants and they're working on everything. There's only five or six DPs and they're working on everything. So it's no surprise that you if you made one fluff, that's six different crews you probably aren't gonna work on again. And they're the only six crews unless you go back lower. And I do think that that's changed now. I think there being such a wider people aren't as worried about it being like, oh, this is for YouTube. You know, it used to be like, oh, you're gonna put it on YouTube? Ugh, okay, fair enough. And now it's like, well just put it on YouTube, because then it'll pick up traction if it's gonna pick up traction and then it'll get big. So now there's none of that. There's a lot more crews and it's just a lot more uh abilities to work. And I think you can lock yourself into a thought process, I had it for the longest time, that a metric of success for me was to have a film shown at cinema. That's that's not that that's not an option in the same way it was 20-30 years ago, especially when I first started like loving cinema like 30 odd years ago. Because uh that's just how films were released. Now that's not just how films are released. So I have to change that think, uh, that thinking and be like, no no no, a metric of success is can you make another one? Like, can you can you make a film that is so enjoyable that someone says, Oh, can I have one of those please? And you know, I think that's another part of um the multiple crews, multiple places where you can work, multiple platforms. There's just so many places where a film can be displayed now. That's so many more crews. Having said all that, there is currently no work and it's a drought in the industry. But that's that.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

But statistically, you know, if you've wor as a director, I think it's like 30% chance of you making a second film. It's quite low. It's a very, very low statistic, and you know, there are a lot of people who are far first and only time, you know, one-time directors of features because they're so notoriously difficult to get off the ground. And also there is a cross you know, normally there were there would be the promo group of people, there'd be the advertising people or commercial world, and then you'd have a TV world and you know the film world, and they would all be slightly different tribes of people. Like, even now, I I'm not connected to the commercial world, but I am connected to film and TV and promo if I really wanted to. But you know, I th there are those sort of pools of when you're in and commercials even smaller than the rest of them. They are that is a very clo, you know, close-knit uh community, and that's great because those who are in it thrive, and that's wonderful. I I I think everyone should thrive anyway. I've always been of that mentality. And I I will I was very lucky that I could do I could be, you know, I could do a commercial and then I could do a uh a TV show, then I could do a film. I was quite lucky like that. I didn't necessarily stick to one genre. And we're seeing now even with actors, you know, and directors, they're not just saying I'm just a film director, they are saying we're I'm happy to do TV, I'm happy to do this, I'm happy to do that, because now the everything's being so elevated with the quality of everything else that there is it's the lines are blurring and you're getting really thought-provoking TV, and you're getting you know fantastic budgets on both TV and film now, especially if you're working for the likes of Amazon or Netflix or you know, those sorts of things. They're it's it's a much much better situation than we were, you know, 10-15 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

I like to consider myself a storyteller now. That's how I like to, you know, a filmmaker, yes, but storyteller is kind of how it's it's a broad spectrum because I've got ideas that I always think like, oh, this would be a great comic book. And then someone would be like, Why don't you do that as a short film? I'm like because it works as a comic book. Like, and it's just knowing that format of this story works in a very specific visual narrative way, and that's how I would like to tell that story. So being able to just sort of be like, I'll just that that element of writing, but for a very specific medium, I think, is a fun way of looking at it, and not pigeonholing yourself as you sort of said there with like just being a filmmaker, just being a TV, just being ads. It's like no no no, I've got a great idea whether it's a 30-second promo for someone, a three-hour feature, or a graphic novel. I've got this story and it works in this medium, and it's it's good fun.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

And I think you're right though, I've just really on the on that point. I think there is also that di difference between content creation and film and and sort of story and filmmaking, because they are they are two different beasts as well. You know, the content world is so very, very different to the narrative world, you know, in a number of ways.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

I I do look at those content creators with such a uh like an element of awe and wonder. I just think like it's amazing that you can create and copy and create uh all within the same life cycle of like a trend. That there are so many videos because the amount of like it takes one person to do one slightly successful or like maybe not as successful video about the best antique tripod stand, and then all of a sudden all of them are doing it, which then leads into all of the commentators picking up on it, and then they all pick up on the same points because they're all doing a trending thing. And I just think it's absolutely amazing that these and it's gonna sound a bit like a shot, but it really isn't because I can't do it. Like, it genuinely takes a different type of person to uh look at a situation and think my commentary is needed on this, and then to produce a very high quality like reaction video to an audience. Of hundreds of thousands. And you're just like, I don't understand that. Because I would love it to have a hundred thousand people. And if every month I was churning out a short film that I could fill a YouTube channel, I would love that. That would be great. But I don't have that. I can't I can't. You know, I've got, you know, m multiple dozens of stories, half written, three quarters written, just one line. And one day I'll finish one of them, and then I'll be like, right, that's the one we have, that's the one we're going forward with, that's where our focus will be. If I've got 20 minutes, maybe I'll look at the others. But to be like, no, every month, write write a 30 to 40 minute video every month, maybe more, and do all of it, edit it, shoot it, produce it, get it out there, promote it, and then start straight away again, pretty much on your own. I'm just like, that is outrageous. Well done. It's not filmmaking, but it is also like, but content creating is a bloody hard job. And yeah, I I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

I I think it's different though. I think it's just different but cross purposes, and uh you have to be extremely agile to do things, and I'm a bit of perfectionist. You know, I the script is king for me, and I do think there's some amazing content creators out there who are doing these, you know, acting all the roles kind of thing, and and you as you said that the rapid pace they're putting stuff out is amazing. And you could only put down the the you can't put them down because if you said oh that's not filmmaking, it would be if they were given the cruise. And I think we could all make films and stories that were of that's called iPhone quality, but I don't necessarily think they'd have the same impact in the narrative perspective or narrative world of let's call it serious filmmaking. Um I think that's the only di the difference between it, but I I you know I I have you know infinite respect for anyone who creates anything in any shape or form. I think the difference is is content creation is primarily to make a you know make money relatively quickly with a with a with a growing audience, yeah, you know, and I wouldn't say that filmmaking is. I think a filmmaking is a is a log burner, not a fire starter. You sit you know, you you eventually get your food cooked, but it takes quite a long time, whereas they just throw all of the all of the bonfire, you know, all of the uh fire starters on and up we go. Yep, we've we've we've cooked it, but it's a bit charred, but it doesn't matter, they're gonna eat it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

It's out there, they're they're gonna forget about it tomorrow. Yeah. No, I mean that that has actually it's interesting that you said that, that has crept into my thought process quite recently. Where I'm like, oh god, it on paper it looks like I've not done anything for the last two, three years. And it's like correct. Because you're you're crafting much bigger things, you're you're doing a lot more research, you're doing a lot more sort of like hardcraft, and you're also fighting against an industry that's sort of not doing too well at the moment, that it's flush with cash. It's like, if you compare yourself to a YouTuber, yeah, you are not churning it out. But then like, is anyone gonna remember I won't name any YouTubers, but are you gonna remember their video from three months ago about how they went to Japan? No, because it's gonna get lost in a sea of all the other videos of everyone who went to Japan. It's like, so don't worry about it. And I just keep the like, oh, but I mean they're doing it every month. I should be putting something out, I should be doing something social, and it's like, well, no. You put one of these out every week, that's good enough.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

That's the thing, you've got a podcast, you so you in a way you are you are creating.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

That's true, that's true, yeah, yeah. And you're learning as well. And I think everything is about learning. You know, every every day is a learning day on a film set and beyond. And I think every time I'm on set, no matter what how generic I think the day is, I've learnt something new. It's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

My my one is uh it's a good day when a film's got added to the watch list. A film I've never heard of or seen before. If someone says it, I'm like, ooh, go on then. Straight onto Letterboxd. There it is. Like, get that ready. I'm gonna find that, and it's a great day. Great day. Um so you grew up in uh Cyprus, you say? That's right, yeah. Uh your parents are English though. It's the th you're you're you refer to yourself as the third culture kid, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Um yeah, third culture kid, yeah, or third culture. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Um so it's how sort of Cypriot filmmaking was would that have been your how you were introduced to it, or was it having, I'm gonna assume, British parents. Was that their influences that brought you into it? Or like what what was it?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Uh none of that, I'd say. Uh perfect.

unknown 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

It's it's a it's an odd one, actually. Um we had a thriving VHS market over there. Um and it was one of those things where the the the the official VHS store would have a handful of legitimate, you know, copies, and then they would make infinite copies so that everyone could get to watch it, and where those sources came from, God knows, you know, it's really was the wild west of of things. And you know we were we you know we did we did have you know we had a handful of cinemas and we but we didn't go to the cinema very often, so as you said, my parents are English, my dad, you know, seafarer turned uh ship ship manager, so he worked at shipping company over there. So we weren't in the military, but we lived you know in Yeromasoya, which is in Limassol, it's and it's uh lovely little village, and but we lived you know with with amongst the locals as we say, because a lot of a lot of British people tend to live in the conclaves of other other expats or you know, immigrants, however you want to call them, uh you know, in certain villages as well. So certain villages had the British uh British immigrants or expats, and then but we were very very early on, we're like, no, we're gonna live locally as possible because you assimilate better with the culture. And you know, very quickly, um you know the first friend I ever made was a little Cypriot boy. So um and Mario, we grew up and we're still in touch, you know, it's one of those lovely things. My so cinema, so it was more of a VHS film kind of world than going to the cinema so much until I was about 15 uh about four I lied, no, I was thirteen years old when our first Cineplex opened up. So up until that point, we only ever had one film at a time across three cinemas in the missile. Right. And and because depending on the sort of importing licenses and all where it was from, we could often be between three and six months behind UK or America release. So a film that had been seen and enjoyed by everyone in the UK, or you know, we would have it a similar time, I'd say, maybe to Australia, who also had it quite delayed as well. Don't know why. Don't know why, but that that was just the way it was. Cypriot cinema wasn't really a thing, so you know, we our TV, their networks would have their own uh telenovela, uh both Mexican and Cypriot equivalents. But film, they did have film, but it wasn't something we we wouldn't go to because it wasn't dubbed in English or or wasn't subtitled in English even. So it wasn't like we would go to watch a Greek movie because it just wasn't a thing. There there were a handful made, but it was it was mainly imports from England and America and beyond. So it the the Cineplex when it opened up, they had four pound tickets. And for and f we had pounds and cents before we became a euro. So four pounds I you know with with some pocket money, even if it was ten pounds, if I got ten pound pocket money, I knew I could go to the cinema twice a week. And for twice a week until I was about 18, I went cinema Fridays and Saturday, and then I'll go either go to you know the local Lunar Park afterwards with the extra pound or two I had left to you know get a Big Mac or whatever it was, and then I would go home. Early doors, and then eventually that became cinema and then having drinks when I was 18, two kind of thing. In the 19 I moved to the UK, but essentially I watched two films a week, every week for years, and it was just look at the poster, that looks interesting, because that cinemax had five five screens, so it was a gamble, and and I was like, Well, I don't know what this is, um let's go in. I didn't even think to you know, sometimes we you know we'd call up with friends or what do you fancy watching? Some people were sure more interested in watching films than I was than others, but you know, that was what really got me into the cinema experience. But then before that I would watch all these films on the VHS at home and we would just wear them out, you know, or if we were lucky enough to have our own copy that was brought in from the UK from a family member who'd come over, because we didn't go we didn't go to England very much. I think I went to England maybe four times in my life, so till I moved there. So it wasn't like a it wasn't a constant visiting situation of you know going back to the UK. So we were just there. We were the the ugly duckling family, um, of all the family, you know, just on this little island. And I think my love of film well filmmaking probably came with an English class where in my secondary school one of our teachers was like, right, you have to make a film and you know, get a and uh one of our friends had a cam his dad had a camcorder, because we didn't have anything like that. My my family were not at all um predisposed to that kind of thing. So we borrowed his and then I was editing it on the VH across the he managed to have two VHS plays, so we were like recording and playing back and editing it between two tapes, which uh for anyone over the age of I don't know what on this on this podcast will not understand what I'm talking about, but it was real-time editing with two VHS recorders basically, and it was very slow and very painful, and it it was a silly little gangster film that we'd we'd sort of concocted out of nowhere in a hotel. It was a hospital that hadn't been built yet, and it was sort of just the inside of this hospital, which is now a thriving hospital. But we were just it was a building site, and we just filmed on the building site.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Do you still have it?

SPEAKER_01 32:17

That I'm sure we have it somewhere, but uh it's one of those things where I was like, wow, I loved this. I really enjoyed the process of creation, I really enjoyed putting the camera, and we only got to do three or four of these projects across my schooling life. And I never thought uh it was one of those things that never occurred to me going, James, we really, really enjoyed this. Why don't you do this every weekend? And it was just it didn't occur to me. I I d if somebody said to me, Why don't you ask your parents for a a camcorder and then maybe you can make films all the time, I'd have probably gone, that's a really great idea. But I just I thought it was beyond me. I I didn't wanna you know we didn't have the the money to do that, so I didn't wanna they were so expensive and and I just yeah I just felt I felt I couldn't and and and and I didn't I just it wasn't even a a a possibility in my mind so I didn't that's that's why I didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

But can I say it's like I grew up with a photographer as a father. So you know, I got my first Stills camera when I was six, it was a little Fisher Price double-eyed thing, you know, and I took photos all the time, and I think since then I've never not had a camera and I've not like never not been offered the camera by dad or seen dad taking photos. Exactly the same though, when it came to video, like I just never thought, like I did a filmmaking course when I was about 14, 15, and that was the first time that I was properly given, you know, free reign. Like, here is a camera, shoot a documentary for this arts college, and it's like okay, cool. So me and a couple of people did it. And until then, like if I heard someone had a camera, I was always like, Oh yeah, if you've got a camera, maybe we could make a film. And then they'd be like, Well, I have to ask my mum and dad. And then it never went any further. But there was never a point where I thought to myself, I should ask mum and dad for a video camera. Because in my head it was the same deal. It was like, oh no, I've got a still camera, that's That'll do. And it just it never that I th I think there was just a period of time where, especially our generation, it's just wasn't accessible in the same way. Now, you shoot something on your phone. A film on your phone is better than anything you would have done on an old high eight camera. But you know, I say it's the same generation. Are we are we about the same age?

SPEAKER_01 34:48

I think so, yeah. I'm 39.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Oh yeah, 37.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah. So no, I it was with with the photography, like we did have a uh cybershot camera, so it wasn't a particularly fancy one. It was a point and shoot kind of thing. And uh and I remember going on holiday and you know, I took I they said I said, Can I have the camera? They said sure. And we only had one battery for it. Don't ask me why. One battery, and we were doing a tour of somewhere, and I used up all the battery by eleven o'clock, and I was scolded for it by my father for ruining it because we couldn't take photos of other things without it being you know, realistically, there should have been more one more battery as an adult. I'm like, why don't we have two or three batteries? Um but but then again, it was probably an opulence thing where one is enough. Um so sure. So that was my foray into f into photography. But I do love photography, and I took some nice photos I still have from that holiday, uh despite despite the scolding. Nice, but didn't own my own one, unfortunately. But um do now, so enjoy photos now.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yeah, what what what have you got now? What camera?

SPEAKER_01 35:51

I've got an A7S3, so it's sort of it does both. Yeah, it's so it's it's lovely, it does it takes lovely photos. Yeah, and um a couple of lenses, a couple of primes, and you know, take nice photos whenever I want, which is lovely.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

I I got rid of all of my lenses to buy T lenses.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

So I now do stills on T lenses.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

I mean that's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Because it's just like well I found like the 7 Artisan full frame uh T lenses, brand new, they're only a couple of hundred, and it's like the they have a nice softness to them. Okay, and it's like oh okay, like this is pretty good. And I've shot a few things on them, just like small promo things, and they get they got a real nice like uh they have some nice artifacts to them, they're like they've got a nice bit of tone to them. So doing a still on them, it's always like this is kind of like just taking a screenshot from a film, so I could set this up however I want. So yeah, treat yourself, treat yourself.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Contacts as well are fantastic ones, they're a bit harder to find though because everyone discovered them, so but they're beautiful, beautiful lenses for everything.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

I'm guessing then, with the first film you saw at the cinema, that might be a bit later than the films you watched over and over again as a kid. So, what was the first film you saw at the cinema?

SPEAKER_01 37:07

It's it's a really good question, and it's one I actually ended up asking family about a year ago, going, you know what, I don't uh uh remember what my first cinema experience was because of that blurred line situation. So I do remember a handful of films that I did see in the cinema, like Free Willy, for example, and I'm pretty sure Beethoven in 1992 we saw at the cinema. But again, Bait it might have been Beethoven 2 because Beethoven 1 might have been a VHS thing. Um same with Lion King, because Lion King was was it was out in 94 and you know Babe I I definitely remember and Charlotte's Web, for example, those sort of films I remember going to the you know, we went definitely went to the cinema for. So it's like I'd I'd probably say it's probably Free Willy or Lion King could could have been the first, but I couldn't possibly tell you exactly which one it is, and I wish I wish I knew because I do remember there was this this uh it's called Hollywood, uh which was the name of the cinema. It was between it's a tiny little thoroughfare in in uh Limassol, and it was just this on this main road, you could just if you just tucked in, you wouldn't know the cinema was there because it was between two shops, and one was a barber and the other one was just I think it was a shoe shop. I can't remember exactly what the other one was. But you sort of had to go down some steps, and uh and I asked a family member, I said, I do you know we didn't go there too often, it was always a bit grotty, and um and they said uh yeah, it was probably used for porn as well as being a main cinema. Oh nice, it was one of those really nice places, but because we didn't have many options of cinemas, I think I was like, wow, that's that's that's fascinating. I would never have taken my kid there if I'd known that. But it was one of those things urban myths, you don't really know if it's true or not.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Anyway, but we were So without hand waving, it was a different time.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

You know what I mean? Like you don't I don't like saying it was a different time because that seems to excuse a lot of crimes. But the idea of a film like, oh, in the evening it shows adult content. It's like, oh, but not in the day when the families are there. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Like there was definitely a yeah, I think it was more likely that. Except I think the only film I remember being read it was the the latest I'd ever been out as a kid was with my father, and we went to watch Apollo 13, and it and I think it finished around 11 o'clock at night because of the way that the schedules worked for the films. Yeah, and that was the latest I'd ever been out, so that was a core memory because I never went to the cinema with my dad, I always went to the cinema with my mum and my brother. So that was the only time I went to cinema with him, and that was a core memory of that place. But yeah, it's uh yeah, uh I I couldn't tell you what the first one was, but I as I said the VHS thankfully broadened my perspectives of of film in general.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

I I was fortunate because uh I do remember the first film I saw at the cinema, it was Hook. And I was fortunate a couple of years ago when I met JV Hart, the writer of Hook, to tell him. And like that film gets quite a lot of hate, and I disagree, I think it's quite a fun film. Who's hating it? I think they're wrong. I think they're wrong too, thank you very much. And I got to tell J. V. Hart that, and I was very pleased. I was like, Hook was the first film I saw at the cinema, I loved it. Could be could be the reason I'm into cinema, Jurassic Park is the reason, but could be the reason. But yeah, it was very much being able to sort of like tell him that. I was like, ah, oh that that feels like a a nice moment, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

So yeah. I I feel I feel for you that you don't know what the first film was.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

No, and it's a shame, uh, and I I do I do wish I could because maybe it was just locking off that part of my my memory, but going further into you know, into my as I grew up, I could talk about every other experience and all the ticket stubs I collected. But it's just not the first, as it were.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

I I was a ticket stubs kid. Uh in my wallet, I had a fat stack of all the stubs I had seen for every film, and I think the only two I've got left are I've mentioned this on the podcast before, um, on my Clerks animated Region 1 DVD, I have the two ticket stubs from when I went to see Clerks 2 because my name is in the credits. Like Kevin Smith put all of his MySpace friends and Teddy was me. Oh what? And there was just there was just a moment of just like, ah! That's my name on a Kevin Smith film. Oh my god! That's amazing. Yeah, it was very funny. Oh fun. Like it would then take another 12 years before my name was then in a cinema credits.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

But um I mean I'll take it. I think when I was when I was younger, I always tried to look for a cleave, you know, to see if there was one of us, and and the only time it ever popped up was Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventures TV show. There was a cleave. Oh, yeah, and that's the only time other than myself that I'd sort of come across that, which is I used to just count I it sounds really stupid, but when I was a kid, I was like, however many Jameses there are in this film, that's gonna be a really good film, so just sit through the credits and just watch all the things get one, two, three.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Well, I'm fortunate because obviously with Bennett, we have Alan. He's not related to us in the slightest, but whenever I'd be like, Oh yes, he's one of the Bennets, he's one of us, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Oh, Uncle Al, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Oh, good old Uncle Al. We we we definitely don't have the same accent, that's for sure. More like Gordon. Um yeah, so uh I mean Gordon we don't talk about anymore. We don't talk about anymore. We don't talk about Gordon. Um where were your uh family I don't want to be one of those people. Where are your family really from? Like w what what where in the UK were your family from?

SPEAKER_01 42:44

So my dad was born in Newcastle and his mum was from Liverpool, so that side of things were very northern. Uh my mum's from Ferham, uh so she was born and raised in Ferum, and so it very almost other ends of the world. Yeah. But her her brother was in the in the merchant navy as was my dad, they met, and that's like how they originally got together. So yeah, that that's yeah, that's that's how that's where they're from. So but you know, again, my my uncle, you know, they hit me oh god, which was my uncle's uh her brother uh ended up moving to France and and Hong Kong and everything. So I think that my my mum's side has been very nomadic. We're just very used to being very nomadic as a family.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

So go where go where the life takes you, not make a life where you are. I think it's a smart move.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Smart move. Um so what films did you watch over and over again as a kid then on VHS?

SPEAKER_01 43:44

It's it's good. I I think again go going back to that, I think it was a lot of it was TV, so like Thomas the Tank Engine and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was one of the staples that I watched like without fail every single day. I watched those two things. But I think Toy Story One was probably you know when it came out on on on tape in ninety five, ninety six. It was ninety six when it came to Cyprus. Um I think it came out in March. We we were quite quite delayed. I think it was a December, was like '95 for a UK. But we yeah, we were I got it for Christmas. Yeah, that's right. So you got it for Christmas, so we got it uh I think we showed it in March. So yeah, so I watched I watched Toy Story One and The The Land Before Time were the two films I watched again and again and again because the we didn't have many many VHS so those were two of them that we did have. And and I remember watching those I you know wore them out.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

I I it's a shame that whole thing of wearing out a film because as you can see behind me I have hundreds of DVDs and there's Blu-rays, there's VHS, there's laserdiscs, there's everything which add on top of all the streaming services as well I have access to every film ever in existence. But when I was a kid Adam's family great shot uh two of the Indiana Joneses Toy Story, a Bug's life like eventually came in. Like there was a lot of films but we're still only talking like at our peak we I think when I finally started getting into films as sort of a an early teen I started buying more videos. But as an early kid we had stuff recorded off the tell and maybe had like between the family a dozen videos. So you watched those videos. I've watched Bill and Ted obviously because of you know being called Ted like I've watched Bill and Ted so many times. Yeah and there's just not a film now that I would be like ooh I'm gonna go slap on I don't know the New Turtles Mutant Mayhem I'm gonna watch that a dozen times like I enjoy that film but I'm not gonna watch it a dozen times. Just the original just the original I'll repeat just I mean that original 4k of it up there.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Perfection it's a great film. It's so good it's so like so clever for kids it's with Shredder coming Shredder shot where you think he's super super long with that shadow and you think his his cape is so long and it it's just one of my favourite shots actually I love it so much. I love that film very special fan so yeah so big Tales fan um so yeah so uh your toy story have you watched four and five oh gosh yes of course I have yeah I went to cinema I've been to cinema for every single one of them and like I'm gen genuinely big big fans of the franchise in general I think five was was a beautiful addition. I think one and three are perfection I don't think any other I don't think anything can ever top that and I mean my my son's currently going through his Toy Story phase at the moment so as a toddler. So it's lovely but he loves two he loves number two which um you know we we have to have a discussion when he's older but no two's two's a great one but but one and three for me are specific uh because I think because of my particular you know sort of core childhood I I just you know I for example whenever we moved house my buzz and my woody that I got you know from for real as a kid have always travelled the top of top of a the the the only moving box in our car. Every time we moved that is where they would sit and the other day I handed just before the the morning of Toy Story 5 I gifted him my Woody which you know so he has my Woody now and he brought Woody and his own toy buzz which is a bit smaller. Yeah excuse me his toy buzz is a bit smaller and and we got him a Jesse as well so he's basically got his own collection plus my Woody but he can't have my buzz because he in case he breaks it because it's a bit fragile. A bit the fr the plastic's a bit fragile with 30 plus years. But but the Woody Woody's held up well and he was looked after well but I I really looked after my possessions as a kid and and he's you know it's just really nice to see him enjoy it. So him watching Toy Story 5 not as his first film but um you know as as a very you know important film to me I I I loved it and it was he did a great job watching it through it.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

I think that's a very uh good put way of thinking about it because I I watched three on I was going over to New York for some work and um I was like oh I'll watch it and I was in almost tears if not tears by the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

You know and like yeah I I I I got off the flight and met up with some people that I was going to work with and I sort of said to them like oh my god I watched Toy Story 3 on the plane and they were like did you cry and I was like in in the middle of business class mate I was a I was a mess like it'll get everyone it gets everyone that film I was like oh my god it got me so good but I thought they were gonna finish it I thought they were gonna end the series that's why I got so emotional during the actual five things no matter how many screenwriting books I've read I genuinely thought they dragged it out so long and it was so well done with the music I thought this is how they end the entire series because we I'm so used to trauma films as a kid they kill the mother in every film I thought they're gonna end my childhood by killing them my my childhood toys and I was a mess and then when they were saved I was like I was just like you know yeah I was just on a plane there was a guy sleeping next to me and I was just like I'm so pleased oh my god I thought they were gonna kill him and I was I couldn't I was an absolute state and that's why I was so disappointed with four because I was like why'd I go through all that emotion like the gang are all fine but it makes sense if it's the next generation of people you know you you watch one to three that's your story four is handing over the reins of your toys to your kids and then five is what kids now know a tablet and I think it's I think they've done very well I think they've done very well to sort of keep that story going and still be relevant. Yes it's a shame because you think like it's a perfect trilogy one two and three but that's not to say that four and five aren't a good good additions you know it's like that they're they're a great addition and I think they've they serviced not only the characters well but they serviced the continuation of the story and for the new generation as you said with with tablets which are a real problem like we're not a tablet household it never will be I don't believe in it I'd much rather he could TV's okay because you can turn it off and it's set in a place you can't take it with you phones doesn't have access to our phones and that's just a choice and look I have no I I'm not gonna be the the first person to sort of critique anyone's parenting because parenting is is the sort of thing right so I understand why people do. It's just something I don't want to do personally and doesn't mean I'm gonna win it's gonna be very similar to Bonnie where you know at some point I will probably have to relinquish that power and give him something for long journeys whatever I understand that is you know it's easy to be a hypocrite now and you know do the exact thing opposite of what I want to say. I've got a story about the plane um very similar to you I was watching Marley and me as the end of a flight and before we were landing it was about 20 minutes to go and they turned off the TV because uh that we were landing I was like annoying to get to see the film what a great film I'll watch it on my flight flight back to to London so I was on the way to Cyprus. Oh what a mistake that was obviously I was I was a I was a mess I was an absolute mess having you know being a dog owner myself and you know back when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

God there's certain films that I just I can't do because I'm just like I haven't got the strength for that and I re watch I watched Six Feet Under for the first time this year. Beautiful TV show if you've never seen it get on it it's amazing. The ending the ending montage absolute tears tears streaming right and I had been watching this show sort of for a few months so I was sat there on my own and I was just watching it and I was just enjoying the welling up knowing it's coming seeing how it all plays out and I'm like oh god this is lovely and I'm just in tears just like content sad happy tears you know whatever about halfway through the door goes and I'm like oh for fuck's sake so I have to like get my shit together go to the door postman hey mate how's it going I'm like yeah I'm good man clearly not eyes fucking bloodshot I'm wet face and he's like you okay and I'm like I'm fine thank you just like take it close the door and then just go and try and get back in and I still I managed to stay with it and go but it was just like for fuck's sake man yeah I'm trying to have a good cry over it well you want a good cry you should watch MASH and you should get to the end of MASH very similar the most satisfying TV show ever ever written it is the best series finale I think I've ever encountered okay I could talk to you all day about MASH but this is a film podcast but uh but if you did if you did your life in TV oh my gosh I could talk to you about MASH but uh well that feels like a very good segue into what was the first uh well what was the ratings in Cyprus was it eighteens or were they eighteen's yeah we didn't have R rating it was it was it was 1815 twelve uh PG and new we didn't have a 12A it was just PG of fifteen and depending on who was on the door you could get in under a fifteen if you were lucky but yeah but that's how it works though. What was the first eighteen rated film you saw and how old were you?

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Okay, so this was an accident so it was completely unintentional. It was on holiday in San Francisco and we were staying at a hotel in the middle of town it was a really it was not a particularly nice neighbourhood because it before Wikipedia you before Wikipedia was the wrong word. Before uh you know Hotel Travago and all those sorts you know booking.com You rolled the dice. You rolled the dice with where you stayed and it was a very sketchy hotel but we had two rooms adjacent to us uh with our parents so they had their own room and we had me and my brother had the other room and it was one of these places where we went was like well at least we'll see the view of San Francisco and you open up the window you know open up the curtains it was a brick wall and I'm like right this is uh great experience but then it it so we it was so it was so so sketchy. So we're like well let's just close them back up because that's even sadder and we put on the television and it was the television in this hotel was bolted into into the into the cabinet so properly screwed in you could it was it was genuinely anti-the we we just flipped through the channels and there was this film that started watching and we said to our parents we said oh um are we doing anything is like no no you relax now and then you're gonna go we know you you know gonna go to bed early and we're gonna have a big day tomorrow exploring San Francisco So we me and my brother we sat down and I was 12 and he was 10 11 and we started watching this film and I was absolutely take blown away by it right it was it was just it just captivated me from the moment we we started watching. That film was it was called Harrison Bergeron and I don't know if you've heard of it before Harrison Bergeron is it's a made for TV film and it's a Kurt Vonnegut book and Sean Aston played the lead role in it. And essentially what it was was about a uh a society where everyone has to be chronically equal and levelled the great leveling where everyone if you're too smart you had you were sort of elect el electrocuted to become average or if you're too dumb you were helped brought up into you know it was basically an entire film about everyone being completely average about everything and it was fascinating and the ending took us so out of s so like you know we were not expecting because we were our household was very sheltered in the fact that we we PG was PG no 15 till you were 15. So this this was a very colourful film in terms of there wasn't bad language there wasn't there wasn't anything that could remotely tell you or tie you to it being we shouldn't be watching this brother. It was it was just it was it wasn't that kind of film. It didn't feel felt a little bit naughty but it didn't feel like dangerous to watch and then the ending was so graphic that it just seared this memory of like oh my god and it's it's still to this day very hard to get hold of and I think I bought an eBay copy years ago which I was hoping was authentic but turns out I think it wasn't but it because it looked like the packaging and everything but I'm very very key to I will always buy the like the original of of of stuff especially films I love but it's a fantastic film by Sean Aston. So that was the first time I'd ever watched um an 18 it was an R-rated in America because of the the ending specifically because of the ending and yeah it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

But that was my first one well today's a good day added to the watch list.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

You will you will love it um you know and okay yeah I think who knows what the budget's like at the day but it because it was black and white it's not black and white obviously I found out years later it was in colour but because of the TV um but yeah that was my first one.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

No it it looks good. I mean I do like uh a dystopian future I don't know what it is but I'm always like oh yeah go on in a bit of misery bit of misery for the future please this is perfect well I was gonna say like this film also feels like that the art could be the answer to the next question which is what was the first film you watched that you felt was grown up well that that wasn't though I wouldn't say that was feeling totally grown up just because the ending was I don't think that was a grown up film.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

It was clever but it because of the nature of it being very 1984 and you know all the all that sort of popular thing but I think the first one was actually and again my memory is between the two because we did a double feature of casino and goodfellas at my best friend's house. So again we were in this realm of fif uh it was 18 and that was or 15 or 18 I can I think it was an 18 rated or 15 rated whatever it was but it was a content matter that was so so alien to me and my you know my existence that when I just so his older brother had it he brought it over from Canada because they were Canadian Cypriots. So they brought it over and he said we should watch this the the this this I've got these two amazing films you need to watch um and I said sounds great let's let's watch it and then I just watched it and I was blown away and with Joe Pesci getting basically buried alive in the dirt. Yeah it just that was that was an adult moment. I'm going this is not for my eyes and my god I'm enjoying this but in in in in as a film it was the most awe-inspiring experience and and it was those those two films just really stuck with me and you know as as you know as a Scorsese fan as well I I just later on explored more of his catalogue but at the time those two films just yeah anyone who's seen it will know you know and everyone has seen it so yeah I mean I would say I think Goodfellas is my favourite Italian American gangster film.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

It's probably my favourite um Scorsese film. Purely in a rewatch no I'd say it is probably my favourite and like Casino is one of those ones that are it's such a solid watch no matter what. Like that is a double feature.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah that's a that's a magnificent way to spend four hours. It because it was as simple as my god that was amazing what else do you have and he went aha funny enough and the only reason we got away with it was because his brother was out his brother never let us have his his collection until he found and then then when we but then we got older he was like you should watch this but when we were younger he didn't want us to so it was quite funny where we sort of like snuck it in and watched it and it's because his parents were out you know working and and like we were it was just you know weekend and we were and we were just chilling in the village and it was just like wow I used to love that I used to love going over to a friend's house and it's either the dad's or the big brother's collection of films where you'd be like what's this Robocop?

unknown 1:00:43

That looks fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

Wow I mean you put it you put it on and then you're like oh my god yeah at 13 you're quite impressionable yeah I think I think we were 13 I'm pretty sure it was that yeah I think it was 13 at the age when we watched those two films so um yeah which living in a family like I wasn't in that kind of family where if you were 15 you only watch 15s like our parents they had their own certificate system and it was very much like if they'd seen it they like we could watch Terminator 2 but we couldn't watch uh Leon explain explain to me why no one knows.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:22

Like it was very much like a themes nudity and no themes and nudity are the only like if it was like anything that had anything to do with sex it was a no. Yep but like violence gore swear words they didn't care interesting and I'm sure if you are asked my parents now they'd be like no we we we safeguarded you they couldn't give a shit watched anything you heard anything first kids yeah exclusive with said yeah I think a lot of people know I've watched a lot of films and my parents are to thank for that so I mean you can thank them and you might not have explored it without that so you know I well that's the thing I think being able to any film was essentially like I I think I stayed up one night and I watched a recorded video of Easy Rider and I told my dad and my dad was a bit like oh you probably shouldn't have watched that like and that was it you probably shouldn't have watched that like at the time I don't think I understood it yeah and I didn't understand why themes or why I I shouldn't have watched that film. And then as I got older I was like oh I can understand why he'd say that but it's funny because I don't agree. It's like but that was also the household I grew up in where any film off the thing give it a go because they didn't watch horror they didn't they didn't have you know Slither knocking around like they didn't have all of those sort of um erotic thrillers that were rife in the 90s they just didn't have them. So essentially if it was in the house it was fair game. Yep about that same metric I I watched Blues brothers like and absolutely adored that and it's I miss that. I think now kind of similar with kids with tablets like your collection I know you've got your your cupboard of films like when your child gets to a certain age and they want to watch a film you might be able to be like oh check check something from the cupboard but more realistically they're just gonna scroll through Netflix and they might put on something that you're like ooh I'd I'd rather you hadn't watched that for multiple reasons one being you should have watched six other films before it are better versions of it that then you now know why that's a ripoff of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

Like you know and the answer will be shut up Dad yes shut up dad and that's we all watch the film that's why I won't have 'em that's why I won't have them I'm telling you about films you'll listen to me so so when you hit a certain age these are the films you're allowed to watch in this chronological order that's a great idea and start it's start started today right all dogs go to heaven off the list uh yeah yeah yeah off the list never never to be watched yeah Vikings with Tony Curtis great film great fun film crack that on you know what I mean so it's it's all these things oh always get always get a hook always get a hook um so what film or which film that makes sense which film holds a special place in your heart which film holds a special place in my heart I think there's only one answer for this uh is War of the Buttons uh it's an Irish film I don't know if you've seen it your face looks like you have have you that's uh uh John Roberts the director is a family friend well uh hat all my hats proverbial hats must be taken off um that was weird I've held I've held John's uh BAFTAs that's you know oh that's the uh Okay that okay that that's those are the BAFTAs yeah so so you know all about Ballydells and Carak Dells. This was a a a film that was recorded on the TV by my my mum she went oh because again flicking through what's available when we're at school recorded it for the first ten fifteen years of my life didn't know what the first ten minutes of the film held because we never had it she she recorded it a bit too late so the first ten minutes of the film didn't exist until my very lovely Irish friend Jody bought me a copy of the DVD so I watched the beginning and it I didn't miss much thankfully but it was um that film for those who haven't watched obviously it's in 1994 about two warring schools in a neighbourhood uh well the they were neighbouring neighbouring villages of uh Ballydales and Carrick House and uh I I for me it's like childhood at its best. I think it's it's you know for as an adult it's like it's it was all about coming of age, you know, it's all about growing up. But you know as a kid it's just about play fighting and the real wars you have because we had we you know we had issues with different schools very similar but not as violent really I'd say but there was definitely a hatred across schools and there were the the wealthy schools there were the the the the local schools there were the not so we we I went to international school because that was j you know everyone did if you were if you were foreign you went to most of the time. Now it's not so much the case but when we went there every e expat slash immigrant wherever you were from went to an international school. And I think as a as an adult it's like you don't really it is it is really about wealth and poverty and and sort of like the the duality of society. And y I think watching as an adult is a very different experience to watching it as a kid. And they both work equally beautifully in their own way and the music has stuck with me for the for I I still I still whistle the theme tune. You know I still is it is it is the most beautiful children's film in the world for me along with Hook. And you know Liam Cunningham and Colmey and Col Meany scared the bejesus out of me as a as a kid you know he terrified me and like I looked up to Liam as as a as a as a father figure as as someone who really cared for for the kids in the in the villages and you know teaching them Gaelic and the importance of their roots which he still does to this day you know uh Liam as a as a as a major activist um across across a multitude of good causes but like I yeah and it's a shame because a lot of the actors didn't act after that. I think a couple of them have done stuff recently. Ferguson I think has done something recently because every now and then I'll look up to see if they if they did because I don't know I just I'm all I'm very interested in in all of them because it had such a profound impact on my childhood and you know I say I could watch Toy Story 1 all the time but before we had the VHS this is like the the one that was recorded that I just watched all the time if that makes sense. So um but yeah that's why it's special to me because it just I don't know I I've I saw a bit of myself I saw a bit of my brother I saw a bit of my friends in every character and yeah it tells you about life and I think everyone should watch it. That's my Yeah I think everyone should watch it if they haven't I'll send this to John make sure he hears it Tell him I love him please because it's uh it really is a very special film.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

That's so weird like it's I agree like it was a film that we watched as a kid but only because this is John's film we should watch it. Because we went to um stay with him in LA and him and his family because his wife and my mum went to school together so they've been you know friends to this day my mum speaks to Julie all the time but um when he was he was shooting Paul Lee the talking parrot film yeah yeah yeah yeah so um great fun film and he was shooting that and it was like we're in LA come over and see us so my dad was very much like oh you should watch like one of John's other films you know so he showed us War of the Buttons and just that whole like even to this day the idea of like a biscuit tin full of buttons seems like such a like a wonderful thing to find you know and like there's it's there's something about it that is just so wonderfully wholesome but also it's it's teaching you about the troubles as it were and it's like oh yeah it's something that makes no difference. It doesn't matter but you fight and you fight because you've been told you should fight and these things matter and these things don't but these things do matter and yeah it's a very interesting film and I did ask John about like the kids and he was like yeah I think he said that he sometimes you know keeps in touch just sort of says hello sees what people are up to but I think he said he saw one of them a few years ago but that was it. Like they've just like he said they haven't kept acting.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

So it's lovely that you uh you you referenced a John Roberts film because I love it well what are the odds of us you know having that that previous discussion and then and then that was the film you're talking about which is that's so bad bonk yeah so yeah if if he won it I know he won his because it was two BAFTAs he's won one was for a short and one might have been for one of the buttons so it it would have been that BAFTA day yeah like I'm not sure it possibly possibly is again I didn't know much about the whole BAFTA Oscar thing at that that age it wasn't really uh fair enough we didn't have the the awards were never shown it was not something that it wasn't a metric for me um the film watch them today yeah the the film for me is just is it is it is it an interesting film and like same for trailers I don't really watch trailers if or I start watching a trailer going this looks good I'm putting it on my watch list I'm not gonna watch any more yes um that's enough for me off it goes yeah when I say I wouldn't watch the uh the awards I wouldn't I don't care about Oscars but BAFTAs I do care about. I care about I'll happily take any of them uh or or all of them but but what I'm saying was we didn't have the TV showing them when we I've I've watched them as an adult you know and obviously I've had friends who've won BAFTAs and and I'm very very proud of them for the departments that they've been in uh that I've worked with them in or at directorial and any w anyone who wins anything in this industry it's a lovely touch because it's a chance of the world so it's all it's not the Bill O Rendal yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

No no it's a it's a lovely um it's the cherry on top that means that you can probably get another payday which unfortunately is a lot harder than we would expect. Now this next question we had some for the listener we had some back and forth over this and I like how this unless he's changed his opinion. What's your controversial opinion on a famous film?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:00

Okay so uh this isn't this isn't pre I haven't really planned this out properly I I think it's very easy to dunk on films uh as a controversial opinion I think it's very easy to say something's terrible it's much harder to say something's good. Having worked in film for a long time I know that no matter how terrible a film may be, a lot of people have worked on it. A lot of people have blood sweat they've they've you know they've affected their health, their f their family, their everything to make this film happen. And I think it's whilst it's you know you can you can say negative things about films it's not generally something I like to do. Um I have an opinion about films and I generally keep them to myself on the whole unless it's a good one. So I think I think if we if you don't mind I'd I'd probably say it's something positively controversial rather than negatively controversial. So yeah and and I think my positive controversial thing is that the 1998 film Godzilla was actually quite a good film. And I think a lot of people will look back at it saying it was you know awful or cheesy or you could you know again I'm not gonna repeat them because I don't believe in it necessarily because I think the character design was fantastic for that Godzilla. I actually think it was probably the best looking Godzilla in terms of the way it looked the way it moved and also the sound design of the actual Godzilla because I remember having the toy as well growing up I I didn't initially want to go to watch the film. The poster was the Bigfoot and we had seen Jurassic Park and I loved Jurassic Park at the cinema but I so I had watched Jurassic Park there we go there's a cool memory maybe Jurassic Park was one of the early ones it wasn't the first one there's definitely an early one and and I remember because that came out in ninety yeah because it came out in ninety eight I I thought oh it must be like Jurassic Park maybe it was Lost World uh that came out just before it rather than Jurassic Park itself anyway one of them one of the Jurassic Parks came out just before Godzilla and Lost World was 97 so that's it there you go so it would have been Lost World and I went I love the first two films and I would have watched Jurassic Park on VHS and then Lost World in the cinema. There you go and Godzilla the big poster I thought oh it must be like that I remember we were in waiting for the film to come out and there was and I was obviously quite young anyway and they had the most incredible sound system but because the the soundproofing wasn't very good it bled through the walls into the foyer of this of of Godzilla screaming from the previous thing which terrified me and I was like I don't think I want to watch it and then my mum was like well I've paid the ticket so we're gonna go in and I was like but I never want to watch it in the foyer she's like no we've paid for them now you have to if if you hadn't paid for it I'd have probably got away with not watching it. Anyway I remember sitting there being really really nervous about it because in in that it was so loud that it was rick the walls were shaking. I don't know where we were in England because one of the few times we went to England right uh so it wasn't one of my my cinemas back in Cyprus it was in it was it was literally in in England so the experience was different different location to where I'm used to my safe space of the Cypriot um you know system and also um anyway I sat through it and and I just absolutely adored it. I I I I it was just so great and I think it was so ambitious and I think you know filming New York which you know it just it holds up pretty well I haven't watched it in quite some time admittedly but I do remember it being so you know I I do remember it and I I think I watched the trailer the other day just as refresh to see if I was not just you know milk bottle like you know lenses thinking was was it completely terrible but I do remember the opening sequence and I just remember it being very good.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

I uh agree with you I feel like um 1998 Godzilla gets the same unfounded hate for ho as Hook where people are like oh god it was dreadful and it was like was it because I remember having a whale of a time I remember Jean Renault as a kid and being like who's this guy? This Jean Renault guy's cool I remember Jamaiquai like doing the soundtrack like that's sick and it raining and like you know Mo Sislac doing voices but in the film like that's a that's fucking so good. Like there's so many things about that film as a kid that it's excellent. That yes as an adult I must go back to it now and be like oh well this is absolute horseshit but I don't think I will I think I'll go back to it and think this is a wonderful 90s thriller action film whatever and it's gonna be 90 minutes and it's gonna be a hoot it's gonna be an absolute ride and it's gonna be loads of fun. And it's I think when you deal with films like Godzilla you can't have gritty realism. I know Shin Godzilla like very much has gritty realism and it's how's how how would local government really deal with the Godzilla attack and that's what Shin Godzilla is and it's wonderful. But if you're not gonna do it like that go a bit silly.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

Yeah like because it's a it's it's a it's a roller coaster it's a it's a theme park right that's what this film is this film is for entertainment big bucket of popcorn shoveling giggling kicking your feet that's what you should be doing when you watch a film like that and I think that film does it you you're absolutely right I couldn't have said it better myself I I I think it is of the time definitely and and you can say some of the CGI doesn't hold up in the same way that Jurassic Park did Jurassic Park you still think it was a real dinosaur.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:51

Can I say nothing holds up to 1993 Jurassic Park I don't understand how CGI in that looks better than CGI today.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:58

Yeah well I I think a lot of it was you know there was a lot to to give credit to people now they're giving a lot more things to do with a lot less money and a lot less time and things change on a whim whereas I'd say in those days that was the shot that shot is the that was the shot and that's even the same as minority report you know if you look at the the CGI minority report it's a phenomenal piece of work and even to an extent Matrix um you know because because you know that was bullet time was invented for that so you know there's a whole load of things that were you know you could be but they hit they those were the shots you know they knew what they knew what they wanted they had the budget allocated they did the time and they all worked to it and I think that's why sometimes and also they don't they're not over reliant on CGI the CGI was complementary. So when I was watching the the trailer for Godzilla the other day there was uh Godzilla was coming between two two sections of new New York City and either it was a model or it was actual New York City it looked like actual New York City but then they had practic practicals blowing out other things and then there a pretty naff CGI leg of the of the of of Godzilla but the rest of it was was practicals because that's what that's what that was filmmaking was practicals. Yeah so and same for Jurassic for Jurassic Park you know a lot of it was an animatronic as you know and so well done and so dangerous as as I'm sure you know it malfunctioned under the rain a number of times which for real which terrified everyone and would have terrified me as well but that's what made it felt so real but no I think Godzilla doesn't deserve the hate that it gets and if if I'd have known that Hook was one of those that got hate I could have probably delved even deeper into that by completely disagreeing and saying that was the most beautiful beautiful childhood film as well as a film. Love hook I love everything about it then especially with the sequence of them eating and again you know if you didn't have much money or you didn't you know growing up you didn't have food on the table and you that was how you imagine I don't know it was a poverty thing in certain and I'm not saying necessarily that we were we're poverty we you know we weren't um but it was but you could I could understand and empathise with with the children in that situation to an extent and it was yeah it that's the scene that will forever be special to me with the paint. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:14

I mean yeah that that multicoloured food as a kid I wanted it. Now knowing it was probably just food dye and mashed potatoes but like in my head it was like the sweetest creamest like I don't know what that is but I want it. And every meal a banquet that whole feeling of just like there's these big old roasts and there's plates of this and plates of every dessert and in your brain just being like oh I want that I want some of that and like even if it's a poverty thing even if it's just like you know you got 10% less than the kid next door you as a kid you don't know so you only want and it is always that feeling of like I want some of that that looks pretty good that looks great fun. And an island where you're allowed to be a kid all the time and running around and having a good time this is excellent and it's all sets it's all practical. Yep it's real pirate ships yes please like Robin Williams and Robin Williams which so bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:17

That's another podcast that gets all day long about him.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:20

Honestly I think it was only I think I only watched something of his for the first time after his death about three years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

Which one was that?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:30

I can't remember it might be I might have rewatched Birdcage but it's a great film great film. I I couldn't I couldn't watch anything with him in after his death because I think it would have just made me too sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:42

I I I looked at it slightly different I ended up going through his back catalogue when he died and from from a from a a fondness perspective because he he was such an influential person on screen for me and he was almost like a a father figure for so many so many kids and he he was in Mrs Doubtful he he was in a lot of my childhood growing up you know from all those children's films through to the adult films so when I got older so I revisited a lot of his adult films you know um which you know and I know some people insomnia for the first time like the other month uh the other year I think it was yeah yeah spectacular film. So interestingly when I went to the cinema to watch it as a kid I was I was thinking I was about 13 and I was thoroughly bored and I but I never forgot the ending. So that was one of the things where I'm like I never forgot the ending and that ending always stuck with me despite me not really enjoying the film and it's something I've always wanted to re sort of relive as an adult and it's actually on my to watch list as an adult because I think I would I think I would approach it very differently. It's like when you're in the cinema there's three films you you know you either you know that you're gonna you're not the right age for would you watch the original first?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:57

What do you mean? It's an original Norwegian film. Norwegian?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:00

Scan oh sorry the original original film first I I didn't know actually no there was an original film yeah um I think Stelen Skarsgard plays uh I think he plays the Al Pacino role well I think because I had seen it in the cinema for for for reels uh I would I would probably watch the uh Nolan's one first um I love watching original films uh you know from like from like in the actual original language I'll always watch it in the original language I'd never listen to it dubbed um but on this instance I probably would probably do the other way around usually I probably have seen the the original foreign version first followed by the remake and then been very sad by the remake um yeah I I whenever I realise I haven't seen a film that also has a a remake so 310 humour Mangold's film I never saw 310 Humour when it came out it was out while I was working as a projectionist I just didn't want to watch it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:57

Right so I found DVD of the original and his and I was like oh great I'm gonna watch the original then I'm gonna watch his and the same with the vanishing the same with speak no evil there are loads of films where I was like ah I've not seen this and there is an original I now have the time to go and watch it originally this and sometimes you know sometimes they do a good retelling of their of the story sometimes they don't and I think remakes are an interesting one they're rather obviously sorry all quiet you've got you know multiple remakes and they're all different in their own ways yeah like and there are you know there are some like Magnificent seven being a remake of Seventh Samurai and then as I only found out recently a bug's life being essentially a Seventh Samurai as well um I did not know that actually I didn't know that either someone pointed it out to me the other day and I was like yeah oh my god yeah um but it's there is ways to remake films where I enjoy them like I think that that idea of retelling them in a new way is a very interesting thing like samurais to cowboys to bugs sure you're telling me the same story that's fine but you're showing me a new perspective when they just do a bit of a you know a remake for the sake of I think Argento mentioned it with his Susperia it's like you're remaking this purely because the name might get you somewhere I disagree with that you know I saw Susperia at Cypress Film Festival completely by accident.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:44

I didn't know what I was going into they just said Susperia's up next and I sat through it going this feels really old and I'm like wow this is amazing and then I I looked at the programme 77 I think it was and I was like this is just an unbelievable film.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:57

Oh it's so colourful so beautiful in that respect I would love to be able to light a film with just red and blue. Yeah not gonna be allowed to but I wish I could I don't know Keanu Reeves did a few films like that recently that's true that's true but Keanu can do what he likes.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:15

Yeah of course he can um so round it off what have you been watching recently I have been watching probably every what everyone else has I've been watching you know Obsession Backrooms uh Toy Story 5 I went to watch Mandalorian and Grogu because I thought that would be fun and it and it was fun I did have fun uh I knew I knew what I was getting myself into for it because it's it's a just a really fancy episode essentially but it was it was fun I really enjoyed it. Disclosure day it was Spielberg's new one uh Devil Wars Prada 2 and then obviously a bit later on was it like 28 years later Bone Temple and you know what did you think of Bone Temple? I really enjoyed it. I I thought I love the fact I'm a big Alex Garland fan in general I think he's an amazing writer and director. I think he's yeah he's he's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:07

So if I could have any filmmaker's career like I think Garland's would be it because it's being allowed to play in any genre you want.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:18

Hmm yeah I I think that makes sense but he's also earned it by you know from from he's he's written sort of incredible writer. Ex Machina was what my introduction to him even though I had seen Sunshine and I had you know had seen you know the The Beach and all those kind of things. So even though that was Danny Ball connections and all that excuse me um but I love the fact that for a zombie film we're finally finding out how it all came about and how to stop the outbreak which the Walking Dead failed to do it just ended so unceremoniously I haven't watched the spin offs to know if that's changed but I did go through every season of the original Walking Dead hoping that There would be some sort yeah, I I I persevered throughout the last bits, but I you know, I I really loved the open the the the original stretch of The Walking Dead. I I did. And yeah, it was w when Lincoln left it was a bit of a shame. But I can see why. But the comic didn't end either though, did it? There wasn't an answer from my memory. No. And I think that was the that yeah, and that was that was my that was what my only criticism is that at least if you're gonna take someone on a journey that long, at least either ha either everyone dies, or we find a solution to then start again properly and everyone is completely safe. And I kind of that's what I like, the sort of direction I think Twenty-eight Years Later is going into. Obviously the spoiler for everyone who hasn't watched it with the negative ending with the doctor, I kind of in my head hoped that he'd survived so we could he could be that catalyst, but because of what's going on with but but because of the the the the the beast as it were coming to become human once more, hopefully that will be the catalyst to then you know take us on that journey to fixing the UK in that space for the third film, potentially, if that was the route they're gonna go. And I think that would be really interesting. And but I I th I again I think you know hi uh himself and and Danny and and I I know that he I can't remember who directed Bone Temple. Um Neodacosta. Yes, Neada Costa, yeah, yeah, again, wonderful job of it. Honestly, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:32

I don't begrudge her being taking a Marvel job. Of course you're gonna take a Marvel job. But her Candyman like sequel remake thing was great. It was great fun. And Bone Temple, grim and miserable. Like, obviously, it's gonna be hard to turn down Marvel money. And, you know, I don't know what the deal was for her. She might have been given a very sweet package, but I would I would love it if she now just like took the time to be like, I'm just gonna make really nice, grim horrors that are a bit more grounded, because I'd watch the hell out of them. I think she does a great job with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:15

No, she really did. I I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed it. I and it was just a yeah, it was a great experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:20

And I I also didn't dislike the Marvels.

unknown 1:30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:25

Or whatever that whatever that Marvel second Marvel film was, I enjoyed it. I think it was good fun. I just don't think it represents her work. Like, I don't want to be one of those people that shit shits on that film because I don't think it deserves that.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:38

No, I think they have very sp specific remits in the in that world to hit certain targets, and you can't begrudge anyone uh involved at any stage because it is a machine um it's a very, very, very successful machine, and you know, it you know, uh it has it has its audience. Like for me, the first Marvel film is Blade, and uh Blade is for me the greatest Marvel film ever. Blade 2 Blade Blade 2 actually, but Blade 1, Blade, Blade 2 had better dialogue. Uh Blade 1 had almost the action was anyway, phenomenal, phenomenal series. And I enjoyed Trinity despite there's a controversial opinion. I enjoyed Trinity, I enjoyed Blade Trinity with Ryan Reynolds, he made me laugh so much, and that's a controversial film. It wasn't as good as 2, but I did enjoy Trinity's two and through.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:29

Yeah, but it was fun, it was disappointed Love her. Oh yeah, love so good in it, so fun. Those three films are great fun. Yes, they are, they are, and two two is perfect, two is the perfect two is like the opening sequence in that techno I love the scale of one, I love that one is a really close-knit, like almost an indie film, but it's a Marvel.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:00

But I do love how two's got the whole blood bank and like the weird vampire stuff going on. And I think because that was then for a lot of us, like I'm not gonna say for everyone, because obviously that would be stupid, but for a lot of us that was like, who is this Del Toro guy? And then you get to open that door and you're like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:23

Ah, yes, yes. Okay, yes, okay. Oh, Pan's Labyrinth. Yeah, um, yeah, you complete you're completely right. It's that I mean that that that that franchise was I mean it it launched Marvel, as everyone knows, into the world that they're that we are today purely because of Blade, and with the sort of kickback with Deadpool, uh the latest Deadpool, with with you know with Blade being in it. I mean, that was just hilarious that he yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:50

Yeah, there's only ever gonna be one.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:53

Well yeah, that seems like it anyway. Um turns out you're right, Wesley.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:58

Turns out you're right, Wesley. Yeah.

unknown 1:33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:00

Wesley is uh someone that I I'm going on a bit of a a Wesley kick, let's say. I watched uh Rising Sun. The Sean Connery, Michael Crichton one.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:14

I don't think I've seen that one. If I have it would have been a young boy when I saw it.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:18

It's it's okay. Like Sean Connery is a bit of a Sean Connery is Sean Connery in it, and if you're a fan of that, you'll love it. And if you if you're not a fan of it, luckily there are other very good performances in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:32

Um But after watching it, I was like, ooh. I only know Wesley Snipes for things like Jungle Fever and Blade. Like, I don't know him for his sort of What's the one with Woody Harrelson? The comedy one. Oh, the was it White Men Can't Jump? No, that was. White Men Can't Jump. But then there's also there's the one where they like they're robbing a train.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:01

Is that the comedy one? Because he's he's does he play a trans person in it?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:07

No, that's um Tuong Fu Thanks to the Memories.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:12

Yeah, because he's great in that.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:15

Great in that. See, that's the thing. I only know him in more of his sort of uh the serious roles. Not in the ser uh, it's kind of the serious roles. It's the more out there roles. The roles where he's really rolling the dice. Like what I know of him is that he's a big supporter of showing mixed race couples in his films. Because he he really doesn't like that it's always, you know, white and white, black and black, and that's the rules. And like he was always a big supporter of like showing the other the alternatives of living. Imagine that.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:50

Yeah. I mean that's my family, literally that. My my auntie married Cameroonian and moved to America. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:56

Yeah, like it it happens, it's real. It happens. If I I remember someone said that once where it was like someone was complaining about immigration, and I was like, if it wasn't for immigration, I wouldn't exist.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:09

Like none of us technically would, but I specifically wouldn't, because it only goes back like my mum is half Indian. Like so that's that. Like, I don't know what the fucking problem is. Anyway, we won't get into it. We won't. Um but that's like that's the thing. I I don't know any of the uh Wesley Snipes films that were more of his like just bread and butter films, if you know what I mean. Like so Art of War, US Marshals, um was it Murder at 1600? Like they're just those like general thrillers that he was in in the 90s. I only really know his sort of like quite early, and then towards like before he went all had all his tax issues. And I feel like I really want to get into that section of his career where it's all just like great 90s thrillers. So I'm getting into that. That's making it. That's exciting. Yeah. Oh I love it, I love a project.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:04

Talking of nineties thrillers, did you ever watch uh Crimson Rivers with Jean Renault and Vincent Casell?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:10

That's so weird that you mentioned that. Um I intend on watching it either today or tomorrow because I have it lined up.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:17

Really? You know, I I I went to I went to the cinema and my friend I was with walked out because he was so disgusted, and I I thoroughly loved that film. I loved it and turns out it's heavily edited um for theatrical purposes, because I was looking it up the other day. Uh it was heavily edited, and which made the film didn't make any sense. And I remember being a bit confused at the time thinking maybe I missed something, but there is a an editorial thing made to all the com all the c explanation sections were removed, so it's a little bit bit at the end, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it as a film. I thought it was great. So but you enjoy it, and uh and you can tell me what you think about it. But I can't wait. I love the again. Vincent Cassell, I did a whole thing about him recently, I just went through all of his background. Like I can talk to you about him as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:59

But yeah, um I I I mentioned Vincent Cassell to uh Kirsty, my partner the other day, and she kind of was like, nah, I don't know, and I was like, he's not a pool for you. I was like, interesting, because watch him in French.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:12

Watch him in French, yeah. Yes, French language stuff is unreal. Him and Irreversible. Yes.

unknown 1:37:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:21

What's the other one that's 2010? There was uh We've Already Made It or something like that. Our Day Will Comes next to Our Day Will Come. That's one that I want to watch with.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:34

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Not my favourite of his, but it was a good film. Yeah, it was a good film. What about Meserine? Mezerine is amazing. Is amazing. Part one and part two. There's two films. Part one's better than part two, um, but Mesrin, the first one, is is unbelievable. Yeah, it's a fantastic film. Uh really, really good film. Have you watched Le Poutment with him as well?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:55

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:56

That's a great film. Le Poutment in 1996. That was uh that just came out, I think it was a couple films after La Haine. Um that's a very, very nice film. Very again, very, very smart film in terms of like low budget French film from my memory. But I just remember it being really good. Um I say low budget because I think it was contained. Um it might not have been low budget at all. So you can strike that from the record, but I remember it being very, very good. Um yeah, I have that on DVD as well. Found it. Ah, there we go. Messeline. Is it a double double bill?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:28

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:29

Part one and part two.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:31

Yeah. Mesiline one is. I'm I'm one is Well, I mean they they continue. They it's a bit like Che, if you ever watch Che Guevara, you know, like part one is way better than part two, you know, it's just just But it you Yeah, it's a two.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:46

I'll watch it as a bit like a Wasippur.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:50

I've not seen that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:51

It's um uh a wonderful film. Uh it's about a Bombay street gang, but generational. So it's two films, and you follow it from like the granddad to the son, but like it's it's it's it's uh wider than The Godfather, but it's bloody wonderful. But that's another one where it's like just carve out five to six hours and watch all of it. Like, don't don't consider it as a one and a two, just sit and watch all of it. Yeah. Gold. Sounds good. Anyway, okay. So yes, there's been some good uh good selections of films, but because of your um sort of uh ambiguous not ambiguous start, but because you're not entirely sure of like your first film, it'd be nice if we could have like a memory. Uh if do you have any sort of like favourite moments or a core memory from the cinema at all?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:47

I do. Um it's a probably quite a unique one. I'm not sure how many people would have experienced it. Um, but I was watching the 20th anniversary of Empire Strikes Back, and it was in one of the the only cinema in Limbstall that had two cinemas at the time. So it was two, there was basically two screens, so it was one of the bigger ones, it was the fancy one that we went to. It was one with air conditioning, for example. The rest of them did not have such a thing. And I didn't realise it said 20th anniversary of of of you know Star Wars. I didn't fully understand what that meant because Star Wars was not a thing that was brought into our household. But I watched Empire, you know, I watched obviously watch um you know the the first one uh and then you know a week it was a week later then they showed Empire and then the week after they showed Jedi. Yeah. So it was kind of like that, it was a special three-week run where everyone got to re-watch it as intended. So we sat in the cinema, and I obviously had already seen, you know, I was just already blown away by the first one and then Empire started, and I'm like, wow, this is unbelievable. Halfway through the film, we're sitting there, and I'm like, well, that's a weird, weird choice, this. And in the corner is this thing sort of crumpling and then and then burning and then on fire, and then I'm like, what this this is this is like pulp fiction, right? I'm like, well, it's it I look back, and the entire projection room is on fire. It caught fire, and we're like, what the hell? But we didn't stop and the movie's like stop, and it's just we're just like, and we're like, do we leave? Do we stay? We're like, if we should stay. Great, great um instincts of survival there. So we're like, nobody's gonna really just wait. We just wait out because they didn't turn on the lights, they just said, um, wait a minute, we will fit get everything ready, stay in your seats, no problems, it's okay, there's a small problem with the projection, and uh no, no one is okay, it's okay. So we just we just hear the sort of as they're putting out the fire with the fire extinguisher. And um like what on earth, because it was obviously silver nitrate um canisters, because it would have been the industry of the original old print, very, very, very well I say old print because they said the 20th anniversary, but they probably just used the original canister, and it was so hot that day in general, and everything together, the the the chemicals and everything, and sure enough, we just waited 15 minutes and they just went and just started completely as is. And that's my introduction to um whenever I saw when what was it, Pulp Fiction when it was burning it for real, or yeah, whatever film it was that was it was probably Tarantino to be honest. It's like I've seen that for real. So that was a cool memory of nearly dying in a cinema, but for the art of Star Wars, which uh an Empire is probably one of my favourite films as a result.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:41

It's a lovely one, and I think it's unfortunate that you won't people won't get that anymore because it's all digital.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:48

Very fortunate that people won't die, yeah, yeah, very unfortunate.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:51

Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. Elden Safety. Is there anything you want to promote?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:57

Uh so yeah, thanks very much. Uh that's very kind of you. I would like to talk about my film Selftape. It's a comedy of about 12 minutes long, short film, and it's currently on its festival run. We've been very fortunate enough to be in a couple Biffer qualifiers. We won Best Comedy the other day, one of them as well. And essentially, what it's about is about three redheaded actors all auditioning for the same role from the discomfort of their own homes. So it's all told from one setup per actor, as you would do in a self-tape. For those of you who are listening who don't know what a self tape is, essentially it's a modern audition where instead of going to a fancy hotel for 30 minutes, you spend six hours reading, writing, lighting, shooting, and filming every single possible version of a script to send to your agent or to the casting individual, and it essentially touches upon all of the stresses of modern day acting and everything that entails. And that was kind of what I'm getting at with that. So yeah, that's the film I've that's out at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:58

I really enjoyed the uh northern performer, northern actors sort of take on it being like, just give me direction. Like, I can't I don't want to waste all my time, you know, presenting if I don't know. And I think that's like that's yeah, I've I'm not a fan of uh like the accepting of a self-tape. I I very much would be like, no no no, either I'll come to you because I want you, or if you can you come to me. Um I I i it's not just can you read the lines, it's can we work together? Can we form a bond where you trust that I'm not gonna make you look a fool and I'm gonna trust that you're not gonna make our script look silly? Like I need to know this by meeting this person. And I think uh you've done a wonderful job of showing that. I think it does really show like the frustrations of an actor. And I think it's something that we should uh maybe not put the kibosh on because obviously it it inc it it offers an opportunity to actors that aren't necessarily within uh half an hour, 45 minute range of uh central hubs to offer themselves out to roles. But I don't think it should be the bread and butter way of getting I've said bread and butter loads, maybe I'm hungry. Like it maybe it's not the um Meat and potatoes, there we go. No, it maybe it's not the you know the be all and end all of how we uh approach auditioning. I think it should just be an additional way.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:26

Exactly, and and obviously it's come about from COVID where people couldn't physically get into the spaces for safety purposes. And it's just this this film was born from many, many conversations with actors I know about the various frustrations of them having to miss weddings, miss this, miss that, for big opportunities of films where they've had to go to these m you know meetings and sorry, th instead of going to the the auditions, they've had to stay at home and do the audition and really scrutinize themselves. And when you're in a room with a casting unit's like, is this what they what you're looking for? Or they might be like, no, it's more like this, it's meant to be a bit hotter, it's a bit a bit colder, it's a bit warmer, and you know, showing that they can pivot as well is a huge thing. Because my my personal view on self-tapes is as you said, it's great as a as a barrier to entry. If you live in Manchester and the the casting session is in London and it costs a fortune to get to London, a self-tape is perfectly acceptable. Or you have some you're a carer or you're working class doing other jobs that are trying to make it as an actor, or whatever it is, uh, even if you're not, I'm not gonna be classist about it, I think you should be given the opportunity to do either with the in-person as a priority. And the beauty about it is, you know, in the past, if you were working a day job, or a zero hours contract, or whatever you want to do, you could set aside that half an hour to be at that place to do your audition with those other people and then leave and then go back to your job or go back to your other thing. So I think that that is where and also take the direction of going, you know, no, it wasn't quite right. My as a director, if you let's say I've received a tape and and it's perfect, it's immaculate, and I've gone, wow, this is this is somebody who's really, really great, and I haven't met them for whatever reason, I've cast them, let's say in that respect, and we're in this world where they could have taken 48 to 50 tries to get to that point where on the day we don't have 40 to 50 tries, but it's not Kubrick land, you know. We have to get it on the second or third go before we're moving on. Realistically, the pressure on actors is is unbelievable. I mean it's uh it's it's unfair to an extent because we give you know lighting and all in all the other departments and camera and all the other departments do have a lot of time to get ready and you almost put too much pressure on actors. And I I think we should always give the actors the space and time to do what they need to do. However, they should be able to get there quicker than 50 takes, let's say, to to be able to, as you said, and and a lot of that comes down to knowing and I I I I think the first port of call should be and and again I'm I don't I don't haven't worked with casting directors for my own things because I tend to do a lot of it myself and and never want to belittle the role because it's a very very challenging role to to find the to find talent and and negotiate all that. But like for me personally, the way I like to do it is I like to watch people's reels first, you know, with a call out. So I watch the reels and I think within ten seconds you can tell if someone can do the job or not, and then you whittle that down, and then I'd probably do um a zoom session over a course of a day with people so I get to meet them first and say, look, I'd love you to know your take on the character. Could you maybe read a few of the lines? What's your intention? What do you imagine you'd do in this situation? Because that's the initial conversation without them doing any homework. I don't expect an actor to come fully prepared to the first thing, but if you can ask them to do two different versions of the same dialogue and they do switch that up, it shows that they're very malleable and we all work together. And if they can't and they give you the same thing twice, then that you're gonna have a bit of a tougher time potentially, because either they don't believe your angle on it, because they believe that their character is their way, which is their their sort of prerogative. But it means that you might be bumping heads on a longer job. When it's a day or two, you can probably get away with it, but on a on a on a big stuff you you you don't have that you can't have that luxury. Um you've just got to get it right the first time with who you're casting. Otherwise it's gonna cost you a lot of money to fix that problem. And you know, and I d and I'm not in the business of of um wanting to fire actors at all. I don't I it's it's it's it's it's hard. You you want to get it right the first time. And uh when I work with actors, I try to figure I don't necessarily believe that you should know, as a writer-director that I am, you shouldn't have to know everything about a character's backstory. I think that's counterintuitive because it doesn't allow the actor the uh sort of scope, breadth and scope to figure out the backstory for themselves so they can get into the character and delve into that that world. You can you can guide them, but if you tell them that they went to this high school and this is what they ate for dinner every Sunday at their grandmother's house, I just feel that it puts too much added pressure and I feel like you don't necessarily need to go to that extent. Some don't will completely disagree with me, and that's fine, and I understand that, but I I you know I grew up on the stage, I like the free will and free range to do what I needed to do to get there.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:27

Thank you very much for coming on. It's been wonderful to speak to you. Um for everyone listening, I will put all of the trailer links for James's films at the bottom, so you can click through there and go check out the trailers for uh his films. They're all great fun to watch. I've my favourite was the Sometime Else, but only because that's had a sci fi twist to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:46

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Ted. Honestly, I've had such a blast. Um it's really nice to talk to someone who is so knowledgeable about film and has probably watched as many films as I have as well, and feel like we can go into such easy conversations about things. It's it's been such a I've really enjoyed it, so thank you for having me.